Episode Transcript
[00:00:02] Speaker A: I'm Alex Stone, former military service member and law enforcement officer, now CEO of Echelon Protected Services, one of the fastest growing private security firms on the west coast. And this is ride along, where our guest and I witness firsthand the issues affecting our community.
I believe our proven method of enacting meaningful change through compassion and understanding is the best way to make our streets a safer place and truly achieve security through community.
Hey, Alex Stone. Welcome back to the ride along. Today's guest, justice. Don't you love that? Justice Rose? No, it's not an eighties band. It's a former EP guy. I know. I thought about that on the way to this morning.
[00:00:55] Speaker B: Nice.
[00:00:56] Speaker A: Not an eighties band, although it should be, right? Former EP guy, current corrections officer, working at a supermax. And we're super stoked to have you today. Justice, introduce yourself to the folks. Tell us a little bit about yourself first, Alex.
[00:01:11] Speaker B: Thanks for having me.
[00:01:12] Speaker C: Totally, bro.
[00:01:14] Speaker B: Justice Rose. Yes, it is my real name. I have to say that because you have no idea how many people ask.
I'm a violence professional for the last 25 years. That's a broad term I like to use. It encompasses things. From 17, I joined the US army reserves. Didn't do much anything. Didn't deploy.
I've done everything from bounce to uniformed, armed to visiting. Presidential details, I've worked with vice presidential detail, vice presidential details, advanced work, estate security. Estate security, I like to describe is rich people got a lot of money. They don't have homes, they got estates.
[00:01:55] Speaker A: They want gardeners with guns.
[00:01:56] Speaker B: Sometimes. Sometimes they just want you to be there. And sometimes you're not always carrying a gun. Sometimes you're just the first responder.
[00:02:03] Speaker A: Oh, that's crazy.
[00:02:05] Speaker B: The professional who. If there's a 911 call and you're given CPR, you're making that 911 call. You're telling them what's going on, but you're also telling them the gate code.
[00:02:13] Speaker C: Gotcha. Yeah.
[00:02:14] Speaker B: Cause too often, that's forgot.
[00:02:15] Speaker C: Right?
[00:02:15] Speaker B: And that's gonna be a huge ramification, actually.
[00:02:18] Speaker A: Yes, for sure. That happens all the time.
[00:02:19] Speaker B: All the time.
[00:02:20] Speaker A: I can attest to that.
[00:02:21] Speaker B: All the time.
[00:02:22] Speaker A: 911 calls, when you get there and everyone's looking at each other. Fire's there, ems, law enforcement, we're all looking. Who knows the gate code.
[00:02:31] Speaker C: Yep.
[00:02:32] Speaker A: All the time.
[00:02:33] Speaker B: All the time. 911 calls. It should be a class.
Two years ago, I left the world of executive protection, which I missed. Met a lot of great partners, did a lot of cool stuff. I joined the California department of Corrections and Rehabilitation two years ago. Like you'd mentioned I'm at a level four supermax, California State prison, Sacramento.
[00:02:55] Speaker A: Yeah, well, yeah, you just put it out there, bro. Hey, you spoke to the union?
[00:03:00] Speaker B: I spoke to the union. We got clearance. I came, my resume.
[00:03:03] Speaker A: Bam, bam.
[00:03:04] Speaker B: Just no details, you know, general. General stuff. I can talk about the prison because it's out there, it's known.
I can talk about certain programs, certain aspects, obviously, some aspects I can't talk about. So, you know, you guys are good about respecting, you know, confidentiality and private, you know, stuff. So I appreciate that. So thanks for having me.
[00:03:24] Speaker A: Well, let's. Let's go back in time. Yeah, let's start. Let's start at the beginning.
Executive protection work. So kind of dispel some of the myths that exist out there about the glamour of EP work. Yeah, great PSD work, as the military would call it.
[00:03:40] Speaker B: Absolutely. Yeah, it's.
It's one of those fancy terms that it has been sensationalized by Hollywood, the movie industry, TMZ, all that stuff. Quick segue, guys. Hollywood gets it wrong sometimes. They might lie to you.
Everybody thinks it's the Kevin Costner, the glamour, the red, red carpet work. Sometimes it's that most of the time, late, lonely nights by yourself, doing halls and walls, walking a perimeter in the rain, making sure that you're post is secure.
[00:04:12] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:04:14] Speaker B: I found the key to be successful, and not just executive protection, but life. I'd use it all the time in my marriage, working with inmates. Two things. If you can be successful in customer service and problem solving, you are going to be golden.
[00:04:29] Speaker A: That's right.
[00:04:30] Speaker B: Cause it all comes down to relationships, how you talk to people.
I grew up. I treat you as you treat me. You treat me good, I'm gonna treat you with respect. We're good. Treat me bad, you adjust accordingly, and it's problem solving. When you're an EP guy or a parent or anything, things are not. You have a plan.
But like the great philosopher Mike Tyson said, everybody's got a plan until you get punched in the mouth.
[00:04:53] Speaker A: So true, man.
[00:04:53] Speaker C: Right?
[00:04:53] Speaker A: Getting punched in the mouth, it does.
[00:04:55] Speaker B: Hurt, as is punching somebody in the mouth.
[00:04:58] Speaker A: I did some Ep work, you know, I'm sure that you were in the same place I was. I actually backed into it. Still a active law enforcement officer, and I was moonlighting, as we do. I was on the. I was on the. I was with the fraternal order police. I was on the board at the time. We would get. We would get calls for Ep work. And then a buddy of mine who was a former state trooper here in Oregon kind of hooked me up with some folks. I got former. All former leos and ended up working at a concert venue.
[00:05:30] Speaker C: Yep.
[00:05:31] Speaker A: As kind of a liaison to law enforcement. They wanted to know, hey, when. When should law enforcement get involved? If we have a band and they get into a fistfight in the back room.
[00:05:41] Speaker C: Right.
[00:05:42] Speaker A: You know, when is it? Is when does it really go from civil to criminal?
[00:05:46] Speaker C: Right.
[00:05:46] Speaker A: And I've signed contracts, so I can't talk about things.
[00:05:49] Speaker C: Sure.
[00:05:49] Speaker A: There were times when I had other jurisdictions showing up with search warrants.
[00:05:56] Speaker B: Oh, wow.
[00:05:57] Speaker A: For prior crimes that occurred at prior locales.
[00:06:00] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[00:06:01] Speaker A: And, you know, and we had to figure out, like, a, no, don't tell them. Wait for the. Everyone to be on stage. Wait for the entourage to be backstage.
[00:06:09] Speaker C: Right.
[00:06:10] Speaker A: Things like this. Like, so there's a lot going on in Ep work, especially when it comes to the. The drama of the elite and the. The famous. Right?
[00:06:21] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:06:21] Speaker B: Well, kind of talk about that a little bit. Right. Wrong or indifferent, they have different rules.
[00:06:27] Speaker C: Right.
[00:06:28] Speaker B: They operate by different rules.
When you're worth a billion dollars, you're going to be treated a different way. When I protect someone like David Beckham, crowds, love.
Part of that. Part of my job is to protect him from any potential violence.
[00:06:47] Speaker A: Oh, for sure. Paparazzi as well, I'm sure.
[00:06:49] Speaker B: Paparazzi. Yeah. You know, what's acceptable, what's not. You're constantly, you know, scanning, assessing, and then you're.
You're. You're kind of adjusting according to your client, too, right?
In the David Beckham situation, there was one guy who was a superfan, and we seen it. We're keeping him out. We're keeping him out. We keeping him out. We think we're good. We leave. We're going to the vehicle. He comes running up out of nowhere. Well, as the EP guy. Yeah, I, you know, protect my client. Sometimes you take a bladed stance. You assess everything. What are his hands doing?
And you're holding him off, trying to get him out of there so your partners can go.
[00:07:29] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:07:29] Speaker B: Client says, hey, I'll talk to him.
[00:07:32] Speaker C: Hey.
[00:07:32] Speaker B: And you're like, man, I just did all that work for nothing. That's all right. He's operating by different rules.
[00:07:39] Speaker A: I tell you, I had. This is a long time ago, but one of the creators of guitar hero and Halo.
[00:07:46] Speaker B: Oh, yeah.
[00:07:48] Speaker A: Arrived in a Ferrari. Yeah, of course. And we. I mean, I was running point for the team.
[00:07:54] Speaker C: Oh, yeah.
[00:07:54] Speaker A: So I thought we were squared away, man. I thought we were squared away. And, you know, the guy actually tipped me, like, a $1,000 that night as well.
And we got back to his Ferrari, and the window was broken out.
We didn't have anyone on the car. We thought valet would just do a good job because it's a Ferrari and totally missed it.
[00:08:14] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:08:14] Speaker A: Fan, I guess, got in there. We looked at footage later and stole stuff of that individual.
[00:08:21] Speaker C: Sure.
[00:08:22] Speaker A: And, you know, it's hard. You know, ep work is really difficult. So talk about some of your successes and some of your failures and any of your positive interactions.
[00:08:32] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.
[00:08:33] Speaker A: They're.
[00:08:34] Speaker B: I'll tell a few fun stories along the way. The.
It's the ability to adapt.
[00:08:40] Speaker C: Right.
[00:08:41] Speaker B: You're trying to think of every contingency you can, and you're not. You're going to forget something. It's great to have partners. You're constantly, you know, doing what we call red cell. Right. We're trying to figure it out. We're trying to game plan if this. Then what? If what? Then when, you know, that kind of.
[00:08:56] Speaker A: Thing advanced, especially with advance.
[00:08:58] Speaker B: Oh, my God. Advances are so important. For those who don't know, advance work is something as simple as scouting a location and making sure the routes are good to. We get more in depth. And is there a hospital located nearby? Is it a trauma unit?
[00:09:12] Speaker A: They have family members involved, children.
[00:09:14] Speaker B: Right. Do the kids have any allergies? You know, epinephrine pins? You know, all the little things you have to think through to. Are there waters in the car?
Are there coffee? You know, little things. The advanced work is a specialty into itself.
One of my favorite stories, when you bring up the car thing. I'm working at a business, and it's real famous tech business. People love to kind of go there and visit, and there was a detail, and we had secret service involved. We had all the locals. We had a CHP uniform. I mean, we probably had 75 agents. Right.
[00:09:58] Speaker A: All in all, that's good. That's good. Entourage.
[00:10:01] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, it was good. It was good. You know, they got the suv staged up and everything, and everybody's doing their part. Secret Service sometimes can come off as a little arrogant. So they didn't leave anybody with the car running. Everybody was there, but they didn't have the car running. So all of a sudden, they come out 30 seconds before the client comes out in the diamond formation, and the car won't start. Yeah, that's gonna be embarrassing for the client. And as an EP guy, that's a moment of vulnerability.
[00:10:30] Speaker C: Right.
[00:10:31] Speaker B: You're keeping your client even though you're exposed and taken care of.
[00:10:35] Speaker A: I couldn't imagine that.
[00:10:36] Speaker B: It makes us all itchy.
[00:10:38] Speaker C: Right?
[00:10:38] Speaker B: Anybody who's been there, you're like, oh.
[00:10:40] Speaker A: And is the car not starting because someone tempered with the wiring and this is a possible assassination attempt.
[00:10:44] Speaker B: You just never know.
[00:10:45] Speaker A: You don't know. It's crazy.
[00:10:46] Speaker B: You never know.
[00:10:47] Speaker A: You always have the car running, always with the AC on.
[00:10:51] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:10:51] Speaker B: It's crazy because it comes down to client relations. It's customer service.
[00:10:55] Speaker A: It really is.
[00:10:55] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:10:56] Speaker B: And in this situation, it was problem solving. CHP got involved, they jumped it. It was good to go. Client didn't see it. No harm, no foul.
[00:11:03] Speaker C: Right.
[00:11:04] Speaker B: But that's something you learn from and you go, oh, man, I'm never going to make that mistake.
[00:11:07] Speaker A: That's horrible, man.
[00:11:08] Speaker B: So it's constantly adjusting on the fly.
[00:11:11] Speaker A: Awesome.
[00:11:12] Speaker B: I've had some fun ones where the clients are. Awesome.
There's some where they joke with you and banter. Some they just want you to blend against the wall. They don't want to see you and think about you, and that's fine. We call that the gray man. Just blend. Blend in the background.
And sometimes you got to be a deterrent.
[00:11:29] Speaker C: Right.
[00:11:30] Speaker B: Sometimes they want somebody like you or like me who's a big, you know, gorilla. Sometimes they want a little female agent and little shapes and sizes that they blend with theirs.
[00:11:40] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:11:40] Speaker B: Unassuming. And you can all be successful. We all have our strengths and weaknesses, and a good team assesses all those strengths and weaknesses and builds accordingly.
[00:11:51] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:11:51] Speaker B: You know, play to the strengths.
[00:11:52] Speaker C: Right.
[00:11:53] Speaker A: That's awesome, man. So, so you've done a lot of Ep work.
[00:11:57] Speaker C: Yep.
[00:11:58] Speaker A: And, you know, our kind of what we're doing here with the business model, we've gone with.
You've been in and out of the security industry for decades. I mean, and I know that you went out yesterday with Evans. Evans is our, is kind of how we met.
[00:12:13] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[00:12:14] Speaker A: He's our California director. He's up here with you right now. He took you out, kind of explained our business model, what we're doing with Echelon. We go onto the streets and we're really, it's all about community, serving the community and customer service. So I'm interested in your feedback about your business model, about the business model. And if you've ever seen anything like this in the industry.
[00:12:35] Speaker B: Absolutely. That's a great point. I I've been in this industry a long time, and I have never seen an approach like this. I don't know why. It's kind of one of those aha moments.
[00:12:48] Speaker A: It was for us as well.
[00:12:49] Speaker C: I.
It's. I.
[00:12:51] Speaker B: When I. When Evans shared it with me, I thought about. It was like, oh, my God, that makes so much sense. Like, why has nobody ever thought about that? And I've shared it with other partners not associated with you guys. And everybody is like, oh, my gosh, that's amazing. The fact that you guys use something as small as cigarettes as currency to garner favor.
[00:13:15] Speaker A: That's right.
[00:13:16] Speaker B: That is amazing. Because you guys aren't doing the typical, I'm big, I'm strong, I'm tough, I'm intimidating move. Because I said so. And if you don't like it, I'm gonna kick your ass. No, no, that's not what you guys are doing.
[00:13:28] Speaker A: You can't do that. It'll actually. It'll lead to retaliation.
[00:13:31] Speaker B: It always leads to retaliation, and often not on you. So all of a sudden, your manager, the manager, your partner's coming by later on a different shift, maybe she's smaller, she gets attacked, doesn't even know why.
[00:13:43] Speaker C: Right.
[00:13:44] Speaker B: Because you didn't perform a good pass down and let them know, hey, this is what happened. Be. Pay attention to this.
[00:13:49] Speaker A: Because I was an asshole.
[00:13:50] Speaker C: Right?
[00:13:51] Speaker B: Watch her back. That's my bad.
[00:13:52] Speaker C: Right?
[00:13:53] Speaker B: And look, we all have bad days. If you're an asshole, sometimes, you own it.
[00:13:58] Speaker A: Gotta own it.
[00:13:59] Speaker B: Hey, look, you know what? That thing I did yesterday came out of pocket. That was my bad. It's nothing personal. I was just having a bad day.
[00:14:05] Speaker A: That's right.
[00:14:06] Speaker B: We can all understand that. We can all appreciate I'm having a bad day. But your guys's approach is very unique, and I think it's. It should be modeled, you know, in the future.
[00:14:15] Speaker A: Appreciate it, man. Well, I'm excited that you're up here. I'm interested in kind of also the work you're doing right now in corrections.
[00:14:23] Speaker B: Sure.
[00:14:24] Speaker C: Right.
[00:14:25] Speaker A: You know, you're actually the first corrections officer we've had on the show.
[00:14:29] Speaker B: Oh, awesome.
[00:14:31] Speaker A: I have had friends in corrections, and to be honest, I mean, this is just my point of view coming from the fop and my background. It's hard, man. It's a hard job. I think it's harder than regular law enforcement.
I know. Because you. You even have your specialized units within.
[00:14:51] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely.
[00:14:52] Speaker A: Especially in a state like California.
[00:14:54] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:14:54] Speaker A: California and Texas are the. If you're gonna be the elite of the elite in corrections, you're gonna want to be in Cali or Texas. And so here you are. You're working at a supermax.
[00:15:04] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:15:04] Speaker A: Which is the prison of prisons.
[00:15:06] Speaker C: Yep.
[00:15:07] Speaker A: Right. So explain in the best way you can, because I know that you might have limitations.
[00:15:12] Speaker C: Sure.
[00:15:13] Speaker A: Explain how the crossover between treating people with respect, building rapport.
[00:15:20] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[00:15:21] Speaker A: How that works in corrections.
[00:15:22] Speaker B: Absolutely. Those are.
Those are the foundation of success, in my opinion, because we're dealing with violent convicted criminals who don't play well with others.
[00:15:37] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:15:37] Speaker A: This is a grandma who got pulled over with a joint.
[00:15:39] Speaker B: No, no, no. And this isn't even.
[00:15:41] Speaker A: This is hardcore. Somebody got gang bangers. Right. Violent, violent crime.
[00:15:45] Speaker B: We got violent offenders. And it's not just violent offenders. A lot of times it's violent offenders who are violent amongst themselves, who are violent amongst staff, both our free staff, like our mental health staff, nursing, nursing education, people that ultimately are trying to help them, or violent against custody, which is, you know, the correction officer, the sergeant. We're, you know, affecting arrest and custody. So within my prison, I've only been stationed at this prison. There's three yards and there's, each one has its own unique characteristics.
[00:16:22] Speaker A: What's a yard?
[00:16:23] Speaker B: So yard, I like to explain, is like its own little city. So within that city there's eight. How. There's eight apartment style buildings that house up to 180 people.
[00:16:34] Speaker A: And what determines the citizenship of each?
[00:16:37] Speaker B: The characteristics of the crime of your past career in prison, if you will. You know, do you program well with others? And when we say program, it's, do you get along? Do you go to education? Do you do what you're supposed to do?
[00:16:54] Speaker A: Work on your steps?
[00:16:55] Speaker B: Are you working your steps to get to the point of ultimately trying to rehabilitate yourself or do you not play well with others?
[00:17:02] Speaker A: So this is, it's a rehabilitative metric.
[00:17:05] Speaker B: Ultimately, we're trying as a department to rehabilitate.
[00:17:09] Speaker A: So those who want to rehabilitate end up in the best yard or unit.
[00:17:13] Speaker B: Yeah, they end up in the best units. And the best units and the best prisons are the ones that are lower levels, that are less violent, that are. They don't have to worry about looking over their back for something. They don't have to worry about any violence. For the most part. When you're at a low level, nothing happens. Nothing. It's easy. And you get your three square club fed. Club fed, right. The proverbial club fed.
[00:17:39] Speaker A: Tennis. Or should we just run today?
[00:17:41] Speaker B: Yeah, they. It's. But where I'm at, they do pt. It's interesting, when you watch somebody do burpees for an hour, you're like, what, what's going on? Only to find out sometimes they violated their rules and that's punishment. So those are interesting.
[00:17:56] Speaker A: Oh, so they're within. They have a sub clique.
[00:18:00] Speaker C: Oh, yeah.
[00:18:01] Speaker B: They got, they got.
[00:18:02] Speaker A: And then they violate. So they're like, hey, they got rules and policies.
[00:18:06] Speaker B: They got rules and policies. And each group has their own unique. Certain. Certain groups. It's known you don't go after custody staff.
[00:18:15] Speaker C: You.
[00:18:16] Speaker B: You cannot attack custody staff. You do, and you're gonna have to pay the consequence within your group, because.
[00:18:21] Speaker A: That would initiate an investigation into the group.
[00:18:23] Speaker B: Right. And ultimately, they want smooth sailing because they're doing their business, and their business might be as easy as, you know, working in the kitchen staff, making burritos, and they're singing, slinging burritos on the, you know, for a side hustle. It could be anything like that.
Doing forms, legal mail. They'll help you try to contact, you know, the legal law library and help fight your case. And some people, that's their service.
[00:18:48] Speaker A: So it's like a paralegal team.
[00:18:50] Speaker B: It's a whole unique world. It's a unique world. And one of the things that I think there's a crossover with what you guys are dealing with is we have a lot of emotionally unstable mental health individuals that much like, you know, a houseless situation you guys have here or every other big city anymore.
It's not what you say, it's how you say it. It's how you interact with these people, how you read these people, how you deal with them. They're all unique, and they all have their own challenges. And for us, we have to worry about, we got a lot of schizophrenia, right? We have a lot of people who self medicate, who state Medicaid, and sometimes they choose not to take their meds. And you could be, this person's good a week straight, and all of a sudden, he's going off on you, and you don't know why, and you just kind of have to adjust accordingly. So I find there's a lot of cross parallel skill sets from the EP world to my world to your world. It's customer service. It's just, hey, how we doing today, sir?
[00:19:48] Speaker C: Good.
[00:19:49] Speaker B: If you tell me to f off, you're having a bad day. I don't take it personal.
[00:19:53] Speaker C: Okay, cool.
[00:19:54] Speaker B: We'll see you later. You know, you don't take it personal. At the end of the day, you're doing a job. I try. I chose not to let the badge be my identity.
[00:20:03] Speaker A: It's just what I do, you know, that's a huge statement right there.
And some of the investigations that I was able to be a part of or lead. You know, there were times when I had to sit across from an individual who.
The victims were juvenile children.
[00:20:25] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:20:26] Speaker A: Right. And I'm the lead interview investigator for this crime, and you have to treat them with a level of respect and build rapport, and it is difficult. And, you know, I was told early on that if you. If you let your badge become your identity, then you can't do this job.
[00:20:50] Speaker C: That's. That's. That's. That's.
[00:20:51] Speaker B: Whoever said that was great.
[00:20:52] Speaker A: Yeah, because he was a great guy. Actually, he's old school guy.
[00:20:57] Speaker B: Yeah, the old ways.
[00:20:59] Speaker C: Right?
[00:20:59] Speaker B: Yeah, old ways. I know. Uh, because I joined the department later, I. You know, throughout my life, I've had older figures who helped me, and I.
[00:21:07] Speaker C: Like to pay it forward. Right.
[00:21:09] Speaker B: So sometimes if people are open, I'll mentor them. And that was one of the things I always told the young guys, and. And young ladies don't let the badge be your identity.
[00:21:17] Speaker C: Right.
[00:21:17] Speaker B: Because at the end of the day, you're using them for a paycheck, and they're using you for services.
[00:21:23] Speaker A: It's a job.
[00:21:24] Speaker B: Yeah, it's a job. Don't take it personal.
[00:21:26] Speaker A: Jocko's like, keep your ego in check. Right. You got to keep that ego in check.
[00:21:29] Speaker B: Easier said than done.
[00:21:31] Speaker A: And if you. If you let your identity become your job.
[00:21:34] Speaker C: Mm hmm.
[00:21:35] Speaker A: Rather than letting a job be a job.
[00:21:37] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:21:37] Speaker A: Right. Then it drives you to do things that are not rational.
[00:21:42] Speaker B: Well, I mean, when you're acting out of emotion, you're no longer rational and logical.
[00:21:48] Speaker C: Right.
[00:21:48] Speaker B: If you're logical, you try to detach from that emotion and just kind of think it through. Like, okay, for me, say a person assaulted staff, I respond, you know, we're restraining them, we're taking them back in emotionally.
You're pissed off, you're mad they attacked your partner.
[00:22:08] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly.
[00:22:09] Speaker C: Right.
[00:22:10] Speaker B: But in today's current climate, we have cameras everywhere.
I can't turn around and act and use the old ways. Those ways need to be adaptive to now.
[00:22:20] Speaker C: Right.
[00:22:21] Speaker B: And you can't take and search and dole out retribution.
[00:22:25] Speaker C: Right.
[00:22:26] Speaker B: Vengeance. You can't do that anymore. Those ways don't work. And they're not humanitarian.
[00:22:30] Speaker C: Right.
[00:22:31] Speaker B: It's. At the end of the day, it's still customer service.
[00:22:34] Speaker A: It is.
[00:22:34] Speaker C: Right.
[00:22:35] Speaker B: And that customer service and that respect is going to go a long way, whether it's on the streets, whether it's inside the walls. So that's kind of how I try to operate. And your reputation, it's hard man, that's hard. It is hard. But your reputation precedes you, whether it's in the ep world security world or the prison world. They know your name and your reputation often before you even.
[00:22:58] Speaker A: They might even know things about you on the outside.
[00:23:00] Speaker C: They.
[00:23:01] Speaker A: Who knows what they know, right.
[00:23:02] Speaker B: It's terrifying. It's terrifying. And you have to, you know that that brings a whole new dynamic of protecting your family.
[00:23:07] Speaker C: Right.
[00:23:08] Speaker B: Of being forever vigilant.
[00:23:09] Speaker C: Right.
[00:23:10] Speaker A: But if you could build, build a rapport with even the worst type of folks.
[00:23:13] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:23:13] Speaker A: Then they won't. You won't be perceived by, you might be on the other side, but you don't necessarily have to be an enemy.
[00:23:19] Speaker B: It's a respect thing.
[00:23:20] Speaker A: It's kind of like, it's kind of like world war two. Not every German was the enemy.
[00:23:25] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[00:23:26] Speaker A: Some were captive within their own system.
[00:23:29] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:23:29] Speaker A: And there being subservient out of fear. And so you have to build. You have to be able to build rapport.
[00:23:34] Speaker B: Yep.
[00:23:35] Speaker A: Right. Wow. So this is just a question that I'm interested in. So I'm sure that you've seen the newbie their first day.
[00:23:43] Speaker C: Oh, yeah.
[00:23:44] Speaker A: What does that look like?
[00:23:45] Speaker B: I got a good story for you.
[00:23:46] Speaker A: I love stories.
[00:23:47] Speaker B: I got a good story.
[00:23:48] Speaker A: Time with Justice Rose.
[00:23:52] Speaker B: And I'll circle back on that. So I joined, my academy class was 60 plus. It was like 61, 62 people. It was the biggest academy class they'd had at that prison.
And that's a lot of new officers.
[00:24:05] Speaker A: That's huge.
[00:24:06] Speaker B: And it was great. We need all the help we could get. We're severely understaffed. Not, you know, those are everywhere. So anyway, we show up, they're taking us on a tour, and we go on the yard, and there's about 25 of us. And I'm from the world of violence, so this is nothing new to me. This is still.
[00:24:25] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:24:25] Speaker A: I mean, you, I mean, as a bouncer, I had to calculate how many fights I'd been in when I went to, oh, yeah. My first law enforcement interview. And because I had bounced for five years.
[00:24:35] Speaker C: Yep.
[00:24:36] Speaker A: Three to four days a week for five years when I was in college. And so I got into at least a minimum, a minimum of one fight a night. Minimum. So you're talking four fights a week.
[00:24:48] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:24:49] Speaker A: For 52 weeks.
[00:24:50] Speaker C: It adds.
[00:24:51] Speaker A: Four for five years.
[00:24:52] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:24:52] Speaker A: It adds, they said, how many times have you been into a physical altercation? And I said, probably around four or 500 times.
And the first interview I went to in law enforcement, they were like, this makes you unharable.
[00:25:06] Speaker B: And I was like, what, me?
[00:25:08] Speaker A: And they're like. I was like, what are you talking about? And like, well, how is it that you've been in. And they go, so you mean actual physical. You use physical force, someone physical force on you? I was like, yeah. I was a bouncer in Houston, Texas, at like, oh, yeah, some of the best, largest clubs.
[00:25:22] Speaker B: Sure.
[00:25:22] Speaker A: And I worked the door, and, you know, and I was a bouncer. Vip bouncer. And I said, yeah, that's a. That's a fight a night, easily.
[00:25:30] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:25:31] Speaker A: And they're like, well, that just seems unnecessary. That's the date. I was like, okay, not gonna bring that up again, sir.
[00:25:37] Speaker B: You mean I have a lot of real world application skills.
[00:25:40] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly.
[00:25:40] Speaker C: What are you talking about?
[00:25:41] Speaker A: So you're from that. You're from that life.
[00:25:43] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:25:43] Speaker A: You've been in that world, right.
[00:25:45] Speaker C: It's.
[00:25:45] Speaker B: And I understand it to be the law of the jungle.
[00:25:47] Speaker C: Right.
[00:25:47] Speaker B: It's. No matter how evolved we are, especially in that context, it's still a lot of the jungle. So we're out in a yard, and we don't have equipment, right. We have nothing to protect us if we get into an altercation, but our hands and our feet, right.
[00:25:59] Speaker C: That's right.
[00:26:00] Speaker B: Whatever we have on us, which I'm good with at this time.
[00:26:03] Speaker C: Not.
[00:26:03] Speaker A: No pepper spray.
[00:26:04] Speaker B: Not in general, just on this tour as newbies.
[00:26:06] Speaker C: Okay. Okay.
[00:26:07] Speaker B: As newbies.
[00:26:08] Speaker C: Once.
[00:26:08] Speaker B: Once we're on, once we're part of the job changes. So I'm looking around, and all the inmates are staring, right? They're all staring. They're sizing you up, right? Law of the jungle. Of course.
[00:26:19] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:26:20] Speaker B: And I'm looking back, and I'm making eye contact, head nod. I see you, I acknowledge you, you, you. And then I kind of go, wonder how my people are doing. And I look around, and I see so many newbies, so many new officers terrified. Head down. And I'm like, I just told you your reputation you're building right now, they view you as a victim who's scared of even eye contact. You have no confidence in yourself. How many of you guys trained hand to hand before this did? Any real world applicative skills?
[00:26:53] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:26:54] Speaker B: None.
[00:26:54] Speaker A: Almost nothing.
[00:26:55] Speaker B: None. And I'm like, look, you guys are coming in brand new. That's awesome. Thanks for being here. Invest in yourself.
Learn, you know, some kind of self defense. There's a lot of great ones, you know, brazilian jiu jitsu, all the latest rage. It's great. It's awesome. In our world.
In our world, right? Of the bouncer. I was terrified of going to the ground. Because in our world, you might get stomped to death.
[00:27:18] Speaker A: Yeah, because there's so many people.
[00:27:19] Speaker C: Absolutely.
[00:27:19] Speaker A: You can't go to the ground in a bar.
[00:27:20] Speaker B: No, it's.
[00:27:21] Speaker C: It's. It's.
[00:27:22] Speaker A: You will get head stomped.
[00:27:23] Speaker B: It's situationally dependent.
[00:27:25] Speaker C: Right.
[00:27:25] Speaker A: More locks and grips and.
[00:27:27] Speaker B: Yeah, walls bounce, you know, whatever. Dirty tricks, as I like to say. Same thing in prison. Same thing in prison.
[00:27:35] Speaker A: Wasn't that your prison name, though? Dirty trick?
[00:27:37] Speaker B: Well, it might have been written on a wall once or twice, yes. You know, different story.
But I. To answer your question, with the newbies, some people just aren't mentally ready for it. Mentally prepared, which I never understood because it's not like you got randomly picked up on the street. Come on. Tomorrow you're gonna be a correctional officer. Voluntarily signed up, right? You knew what you were getting into.
So it's. It's interesting. And even though I only got two years in the department, my inmate interaction is always. They're like, what'd you do before this? I always tell them, hey, this ain't my new. It's not my first rodeo.
[00:28:14] Speaker C: Right.
[00:28:15] Speaker B: And they see it right away.
[00:28:16] Speaker A: Oh, they know.
[00:28:17] Speaker B: And, I mean, because you're in here with convicted felons. These are sharks. That's what they do. They prey on the weakness, right? So that's kind of what I got.
[00:28:27] Speaker A: For that crazy man. So you've lived in both worlds. You've lived in the EP world, right? And, I mean, you've done presidential details. Three presidential details, vice presidential details. Multiple famous folks, right? Very wealthy, the elite of the elite working on their estates. Multimillion dollar, huge estates, right?
[00:28:48] Speaker B: Sometimes billion, sometimes billion, right?
[00:28:51] Speaker A: Kind of give us a breakdown between the differences between the. What you do with corrections and the mindset you have to have and then the mindset of what you're doing with the EP work.
[00:29:05] Speaker B: So the EP world, you're often a loan operator, right? You're often doing it by yourself or. Those were my experiences. I know sometimes people have teams. Those were great. Those weren't the realities for me. The realities were me often just kind of having to do it on my own. And you're. Then you're the professional, right? So the client wants to know you can take care of things. You're the solo operator. You're figuring everything out on your own. You're problem solving. And then being a good agent, you're. Then, when you get time, emailing your boss, hey, this happened. Don't worry. I took care of it boom, boom, boom. Clients happy that way. You as a boss, don't get a call from the client going, hey, yada da. And you're like, oh, okay. And you're rolling with it. The moment you hang up, you're calling me. I just got off a twelve or 16 hours shift. I'm trying to sleep and I'm going, oh, yeah, my bad. I forgot to tell you about that.
[00:29:58] Speaker C: Right.
[00:29:58] Speaker B: So it's a lot more solo. Take the initiative, be the problem solver.
[00:30:06] Speaker A: You're working the whole solution.
[00:30:08] Speaker B: You're working the whole thing. You're working. You don't have direct oversight.
[00:30:11] Speaker C: Right.
[00:30:11] Speaker B: Not on scene.
It's been an interesting adjustment having to re acclimatize myself into the team where I'm following your instructions. I'm catching your lead. How do you each, each unit likes to do things a different way. I'm learning your ways because I'm not trying to upset your program. You got a good thing going. I'm not trying to mess it up. I'm being part of a team.
[00:30:33] Speaker C: Right.
[00:30:34] Speaker B: So it's an interesting step. It's not a step down. It's just a different kind of skill set that you have to manage.
[00:30:42] Speaker A: Well, I'm sure one of those skill sets is, and we have this in law enforcement and security, is that there's always times when, you know, that other person, the suspect, the subject, they tend to get escalated. They escalate the situation.
[00:30:57] Speaker B: Sure.
[00:30:57] Speaker A: And talk about how, you know, in our line of work, your methodology when it comes to escalating and then trying to deescalate, absolutely. Use the force will rise, but ultimately, we always want to bring it back down. We're always trying to ground it back to where the individual is regulated.
[00:31:16] Speaker B: Absolutely. Well, you know, it's the saying that we all have in the industry, it's like, you want a good, safe day, you want everybody to go home safe, nobody injured. That's a great day. So we're not trying to provoke violence. We're not trying to get into those altercations. We want to deescalate. And I find one of the first things is your physical appearance and the vibe you're putting off, right. Are you putting off an aggressive vibe? Are you.
[00:31:42] Speaker A: Just your posture.
[00:31:43] Speaker B: Just your posture, right? Are you belated already? Are your hands balled up? Are you displaying signs of aggression and violence? Are you ready to meet violence and violence? Heads on. Well, then it's just going to escalate.
[00:31:53] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:31:53] Speaker B: You show up. Hey, how you doing? Non threatening, low, easy voice, confident approach, making eye contact. Sometimes, if they're mental health, you don't want to make too much eye contact. You want to read the situation. We like to say it's situationally dependent.
[00:32:06] Speaker C: Right?
[00:32:07] Speaker B: Easy, calm voice. Hey, how's it going? What's the problem? Hear them out. Don't cut them off.
[00:32:12] Speaker C: Right?
[00:32:13] Speaker A: Don't.
[00:32:13] Speaker B: Don't cut them off.
[00:32:14] Speaker A: Listen, listen.
[00:32:15] Speaker C: Right.
[00:32:16] Speaker B: Much like in a marriage. What's wrong? Well, this. And you cut her off and you give her an answer. They don't want to hear that. No, people want to be heard, always. So let them talk. You're on the clock. What's. What's it cost you? Sometimes if they're rambling over and over. Okay. And there's techniques.
[00:32:33] Speaker C: Right.
[00:32:33] Speaker B: Okay, let me see if I understand this correctly. And, you know, respond with what they said. Rehash it.
[00:32:40] Speaker C: Right?
[00:32:40] Speaker B: Does that make sense? Are we on the same page? All right, cool.
[00:32:43] Speaker C: So what.
[00:32:44] Speaker B: What can I do to help?
[00:32:45] Speaker C: Right?
[00:32:45] Speaker B: And your guys situation? Do you need shelter? Can I get you something? You know, hygiene in the ep world?
[00:32:53] Speaker C: Okay.
[00:32:53] Speaker B: If it's a threat, you know, you. You deal with it. If somebody's just a looky Lou.
[00:32:56] Speaker C: Right.
[00:32:57] Speaker B: If somebody's curious, don't dream like a.
[00:32:58] Speaker A: Threat unless they perceive they are a threat.
[00:33:00] Speaker B: Absolutely. They're just curious human beings. We're curious creatures.
[00:33:03] Speaker A: Yeah, because, you know, I was watching tv the other day and, like, Taylor Swift is blown, blown up, and she went to an event and literally thousands of people were just, like, mobbing a small town.
[00:33:13] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:33:13] Speaker A: And I thought, man, I was thinking about you because you were coming up to do this, and I know that you've protected people like this.
[00:33:19] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[00:33:20] Speaker A: And it's. I mean, that's. How can you distinguish between the lookie Lou and the threat when you really have hundreds or thousands of people mobbing someone?
[00:33:29] Speaker C: So that's.
[00:33:29] Speaker B: That's a very unique skill set. We call that. We call that crowd work.
[00:33:33] Speaker C: Right.
[00:33:33] Speaker B: Or I call it crowd work. Crowd work is more mentally taxing and emotionally draining than almost any altercation, any. Anything, any interaction I'm having, for the most part because I'm constantly reading, assessing. You're making. First you have to make a baseline read.
[00:33:50] Speaker C: Right?
[00:33:51] Speaker B: What's the crowd like? What's the energy like?
[00:33:53] Speaker C: Right.
[00:33:53] Speaker B: Is it aggressive? Is it not aggressive? Is it just enthusiastic? Okay, cool. We've made the base assessment.
[00:33:58] Speaker C: All right?
[00:33:59] Speaker B: Now we're looking for outliers. You're looking hands. Aggression. Why is that person wearing a trench coat when it's 110 degrees?
[00:34:06] Speaker C: Right? Yeah. Right.
[00:34:07] Speaker B: These are outliers.
[00:34:08] Speaker C: Right.
[00:34:09] Speaker B: If in a Taylor swift, you know, typical. Typical group. If all of a sudden, 25 motorcycle, you know, motorcycle club guys show up with their cuts and their tattoos and their stuff, looking out of place, you're going to take note of it, and you gonna pay a little extra attention. That doesn't mean they're signs of aggression, but you note it. You note the outlier.
[00:34:33] Speaker A: I've always noticed that, and this was one of my kind of, I guess, what would you call it? Crowd reading. The crowd or.
[00:34:41] Speaker B: Crowd, yeah, crowd work.
[00:34:43] Speaker A: I noticed that if someone in the crowd is willing to use aggression towards another person in the crowd in order to gain a better place of prominence within the crowd, that, to me, was the number one indicator that that person is more likely to use violence.
[00:35:01] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[00:35:02] Speaker A: Against the subject that you're trying to protect.
[00:35:03] Speaker B: They've already used it. They've already shown they're willing to trust.
[00:35:06] Speaker A: People out of the way.
[00:35:07] Speaker B: Right.
[00:35:07] Speaker A: Elbow in.
[00:35:08] Speaker C: Right, right.
[00:35:09] Speaker B: Absolutely. That's a great call. They're trying to get to the front. And you notice that when you're. You're like, whoa, whoa. That's the outlier.
[00:35:15] Speaker C: What?
[00:35:15] Speaker B: And, you know, if you're working a team, great. Hey, somebody pay attention to this person. If you're not working a team, you adjust yourself, making sure, at the very least, that you get in between your principal and that person.
[00:35:27] Speaker C: Right.
[00:35:28] Speaker B: And a lot of times, I felt there was better ways to deal with it than escalating violence, just pulling somebody aside. Hey, come here. Actually, let's go over here. Let's have a chat. Actually, let me see if I can get you something. If I can get you a water to calm you down. Cause it's a hot day, maybe you're agitated.
[00:35:49] Speaker A: I always use that. I always use that. I say, hey, man, I actually don't have good hearing.
[00:35:53] Speaker C: That's.
[00:35:53] Speaker A: Could we step somewhere where we could have a conversation? I could hear you.
[00:35:56] Speaker B: I'll tell you one of my favorite techniques. One of my favorite techniques. When I'm working a crowd, or, say, a festival with intoxication, right? Two males, they're doing their dance one on one, seeing how tough they are, right? They're trying to get the women pounding their chest. I love finding the aggressor, pulling them aside, handing them a water, and saying, hey, look, I know you could beat that person up. Heck, I know you could beat me up. Well, here's the thing. See all these beautiful women? I'm just trying to get laid, baby. Don't do that to me. They always laugh. I hand them a water, and we're always so. Humor, humor.
[00:36:30] Speaker A: Self deprecating humor, self deprecating humor.
[00:36:33] Speaker B: It is a beautiful skill set to have. Don't take yourself so serious that you can't be the butt of the joke.
[00:36:37] Speaker A: That's great, man. We need to incorporate some of that in our training. That self deprecating humor really is humbling yourself while at the same time letting them know that you're a presence.
[00:36:47] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:36:47] Speaker A: And you're a person, and a real person works amazingly.
So, you know, as we're talking, I want to make sure that people understand, you know, all of our folks watching, that we're not here to glorify violence.
[00:37:00] Speaker C: No, not at all.
[00:37:01] Speaker A: In fact, you know, I don't know many people in this industry that actually want to get into an altercation.
It's so easy to lose your career over a blown knee.
[00:37:13] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[00:37:14] Speaker A: Or you get shot. You get your. I had a guy know he had his thumb shot off, lost his career as a cop.
[00:37:20] Speaker B: A lot of guys shooting the pink ear, the finger, and that's it done.
[00:37:23] Speaker A: And so, you know, at the end of the day, our job is to stop violence. Right. Or actually to deter it. To deter it. To prevent it.
[00:37:33] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:37:34] Speaker A: From even happening.
[00:37:35] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:37:35] Speaker A: And that really is the heart of what this is about. Right. We're. We're trying to protect the community.
Right. One situation at a time.
[00:37:43] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[00:37:44] Speaker A: And. And even though, you know, there are a lot of folks in the military, in this industry, law enforcement, security, emerging emergency services, I think a lot of us, we tell these war stories. Right. But a lot of it is we retell these stories so that we can work through the trauma of those stories.
[00:38:09] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[00:38:10] Speaker A: I went to a homicide where a man, he killed his wife, he killed his eight year old son with a sword, decapitated his son, and then he killed himself. And working through that trauma, being able to talk through that in a way that it's more.
You process it. People don't process everything at one time. You process things in pieces. And I think that telling those stories, it's not really about glorifying the act or glorifying the fact that we, you know, this arrest, that was really tough, and I had to fight this guy, and it's more about dealing with that and processing it over time.
[00:38:47] Speaker B: Absolutely. Absolutely. PTSD is obviously a real thing, especially in our. Our industry, and it's unfortunately, being homeless.
[00:38:56] Speaker A: Absolutely causes the PTSD, and they need to retell their story multiple times.
[00:39:00] Speaker B: They deal with trauma that I couldn't understand. I couldn't fathom on a daily basis they have to deal with being victimized, with being assaulted, all their stuff, all while trying to procure what their needs are.
PTSD is one of those things that needs to be talked about more. Especially in our community. We're all known as the tough guys, the knuckle draggers, and we do tell stories if we're comfortable.
[00:39:25] Speaker C: Right.
[00:39:26] Speaker B: And we have things like peer support and stuff. But it's having a good network of people that you trust that you know that at the end of the day, when you share this story, however horrific or benign it may be, they're not going to judge you. They're not going to judge you if you cry. They're, you know, they might kind of talk about it later after the fact. And you guys can laugh, but that's part of the relationship being built.
I'll tell a quick story. In 2015, I was doing an executive protection, I was a member of a team campaigning. President Donald Trump was in San Jose, California. His platform. This isn't about politics.
[00:40:07] Speaker A: Donald Trump campaigned in California.
[00:40:08] Speaker C: Oh, yeah.
[00:40:09] Speaker A: Oh, I didn't.
[00:40:09] Speaker C: Oh, yeah.
[00:40:10] Speaker B: In San Jose. Which San Jose?
[00:40:12] Speaker A: That's near the Bay area. Is that considered the Bay Area?
[00:40:14] Speaker B: It's, it's, it's the South Bay. And San Jose has active hispanic gang population.
[00:40:20] Speaker A: Oh, I'm sure.
[00:40:21] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:40:22] Speaker B: So I show up, it's a hot summer day, and you don't know where you're gonna be placed. Sometimes you just know you're showing up for a detail. It's plain, closed, unarmed. And I show up and I am with a news crew.
[00:40:36] Speaker C: Right.
[00:40:37] Speaker B: News crew. They want footage.
[00:40:39] Speaker A: Okay, so you're doing ep for news.
[00:40:41] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:40:41] Speaker A: That's one of the most difficult details. People don't understand how difficult these details are. They're very difficult.
[00:40:47] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:40:48] Speaker B: So initially it's a small crowd. You know, they're kind of funny. They're 99% anti Trump.
[00:40:55] Speaker C: Right.
[00:40:55] Speaker B: Just sitting the scene, painting a picture. And it escalates to thousands.
[00:41:00] Speaker C: Right?
[00:41:00] Speaker A: Thousands. People that are anti protesting. Okay, protesters.
[00:41:04] Speaker B: So the event ends. I'm in front of the protesters. There's, you know, stanchion line and anti or pro Trump people are leaving. They got their hats, you know, the synonymous hats and all stuff. They're proud, they're happy for, you know, their candidate and the booze are coming, the racial taunts.
[00:41:23] Speaker A: And where is the news crew at this point?
[00:41:25] Speaker B: They're everywhere there. I only had one news crew.
[00:41:28] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:41:29] Speaker B: They're trying to get involved. They're trying to get the footage so.
[00:41:31] Speaker A: They'Re probably in between both.
[00:41:32] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.
[00:41:33] Speaker C: There's.
[00:41:33] Speaker A: They want to get the footage.
[00:41:34] Speaker C: They want the footage.
[00:41:35] Speaker A: So difficult news crews, man. The CP work is so difficult.
[00:41:38] Speaker B: I think I seen things getting thrown. Eggs, getting thrown at, you know, anti trumpers, throwing it to pro trumpers. That was just my experience.
[00:41:47] Speaker C: That's.
[00:41:47] Speaker B: That's how it was working. See multiple situations where five, six, seven people attacked. One pro trumper. They're beating them up. They're spitting in their face or ripping off their clothes. They're burning flags, which killed me.
[00:41:59] Speaker A: It is hard, as a veteran, to watch that for me because that, you know, it'll kill you.
My brother was, you know, lost his life on active duty.
[00:42:07] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:42:08] Speaker A: That flag draped over my brother's coffin. Like, that flag means more to me now because of his death than it ever did even when I was in the military.
[00:42:16] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[00:42:17] Speaker A: Anyway, so we'll talk about that later.
[00:42:19] Speaker B: But so there was actually three situations that I witnessed. Now, understand, I'm a plain clothes guy.
[00:42:25] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:42:26] Speaker A: So no one knows who. What side you're on. No, but they're trying to figure it out.
[00:42:28] Speaker B: They're trying to figure it out because I'm constantly by the news, and there was riot police there on scene.
[00:42:34] Speaker C: Right.
[00:42:34] Speaker B: That wasn't my job. There was three situations where I seen somebody, like we talked about, somebody goes down to the ground. There was eight to ten people jumping somebody. Somebody goes down to the ground, they start kicking them. There was three different times. I didn't know if that person was going to be dead or not.
[00:42:48] Speaker C: Yeah, of course, I had to check.
[00:42:49] Speaker B: The newspaper the next day. Nobody died going through the rest of the night. The mob mentality is a real thing, and that's something, you know, that is a skill set. You have to learn how to navigate when you're putting your body in between people who are trying to get on camera, who are trying to get involved in it, and the news crew is trying to push their way into it, into the fight, and you're trying to pull them back, and you're the dynamic. The melee was so difficult. There was multiple times where I told the news crew, if I believed that you could survive this without me, I would be gone. This money isn't worth it, but I took this, and it's my reputation. I will do my best to keep you safe.
At the end of the night, it was a long one, my charge. Everybody went home safe. Everybody was good. I came home, my wife and new kids. At the newborns at the time, they were all asleep. I just wanted to hug them and tell them that I love them because I went through a very traumatic event. But that wasn't fair. That wasn't fair to wake them up so they could take and embrace and feel my pain.
So I had to sit and we ruminate.
[00:43:53] Speaker C: Right?
[00:43:53] Speaker B: We replay it in our head over and over. And it took months. Months for me to kind of deal with, like. And I'm trained to deal with trauma.
[00:44:01] Speaker A: The fact that you didn't act and help that person.
[00:44:03] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:44:03] Speaker A: Because you were tasked with protecting somebody else.
[00:44:06] Speaker B: I was tasked to protect somebody else. If I got involved, I'm putting myself at risk. I have a family to protect. I'm gonna be part of it. What if I assault people? What if I do my best to get that person to survive? I'm going to have to put out violence in a violent situation. And it wasn't my job.
The San Jose PD had their right piece there and it was like, that's their call. That's not my call. And it was really difficult for me to deal with from a traumatic event. So that's me and my personal kind of sharing of the EP trauma world.
[00:44:40] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:44:41] Speaker A: I appreciate that.
[00:44:42] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:44:42] Speaker A: I mean, this job is tough and for everyone not watching out there. If you're interested in doing this type of work, there are schools you can go to.
[00:44:50] Speaker B: There's a lot of great.
[00:44:51] Speaker A: I'm not going to plug any here. No, I don't know these. I know you know them, but I don't know them.
[00:44:55] Speaker B: I know one or two.
[00:44:56] Speaker A: You can always join the military. The military does great PSD work. A lot of the special teams, they do great PSD work. You can always go into federal service.
[00:45:06] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[00:45:07] Speaker A: Air marshals, you can learn a lot there. We're going to have an air marshal on here soon.
[00:45:10] Speaker B: Oh, that's going to be a great talk.
[00:45:12] Speaker A: Really great guys.
[00:45:12] Speaker C: Good buddy.
[00:45:13] Speaker B: Great talk.
[00:45:13] Speaker A: And or the US Marshals service, because they do custodies and that actually is EP work, that type of custody work.
[00:45:20] Speaker B: There's so many different venues, so many.
[00:45:21] Speaker A: Different venues you can learn this at. But if you're interested, please find justice. I know that you're. You've done some consulting for us. You've taught it, done some trainings for our company, and if people want to get ahold of you, or if you just want to be under the radar, that's totally cool.
[00:45:36] Speaker B: No, it's. I mean, you could always find me on LinkedIn, you know, professionally. Justice Rose, if you ever want to email me or.
[00:45:44] Speaker A: That's not an eighties band, right?
[00:45:47] Speaker B: It's not an eighties band. I'm not a judge. It is ironic that I went into law enforcement. I often get the jokes of, well, that sounds like an adult star. I didn't have that. Those skill sets, if you will, to go down that road. But yeah, absolutely. If anybody wants to reach out, LinkedIn is probably the best way. And I can go from there.
[00:46:06] Speaker A: Awesome. Well, thanks for coming in today. We're about to hit the road. This isn't about sitting at our desk all day.
[00:46:12] Speaker B: Thank goodness, because my butt's getting.
[00:46:14] Speaker A: I know. We don't sit at the desk. We go out and we change lives. I love to change communities. That's what this is about. So right now, we're gonna wrap up the studio time, but we're gonna go and hit the streets of Portland. We're gonna make contact with one of our awesome guards, chase wilming, former Marine.
[00:46:31] Speaker B: That's okay.
[00:46:33] Speaker A: And we're gonna hang out with him, and we're gonna see what we can do today. Love you on the streets. Cool.
