Episode Transcript
[00:00:02] Speaker A: I'm Alex Stone, former military service member and law enforcement officer, now CEO of Echelon Protected Services, one of the fastest growing private security firms on the west coast. And this is ride along, where our guest and I witness firsthand the issues affecting our community.
I believe our proven method of enacting meaningful change through compassion and understanding is the best way to make our streets a safer place and truly achieve security through the community.
[00:00:48] Speaker B: Hey, Alex. Dylan, ride along. We kind of have a great emergency situation. We contacted a lady on a patrol with Max McKnight, our guest yesterday. She's meeting us right now. We're trying to get her into a shelter, so we're rolling out Bach in the back. Got the crew. Everyone's ready to roll. Our guest today, Jim good, hasn't arrived yet, so we're rolling out a little bit early to meet this lady.
[00:01:16] Speaker A: Her name Shantay, right?
[00:01:18] Speaker C: Correct.
[00:01:18] Speaker B: My name is Shantay.
[00:01:22] Speaker C: Yeah, I've got her last name, but it's not really important. The point is, is that she's. She talked to us and just said, hey, I'm really, really tired. I can't be out here anymore. And she's at a breaking point.
[00:01:31] Speaker B: She's been on the street for two.
[00:01:33] Speaker C: Years and maybe longer. I don't know.
[00:01:36] Speaker B: I think she said at least this last stint was two years.
[00:01:39] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:01:41] Speaker B: And so, you know, her life matters. So we're just. We're starting on the road today.
[00:01:48] Speaker C: So right now we're going to. We're heading over to the agreed meeting point, which is the Blanche house. It is a location where food is provided three meals a day.
Long, long history of doing so. It's a wonderful ministry that serves the underserved community. And they get food there regularly, like I said, three squares a day, home cooked meals. Good stuff.
[00:02:08] Speaker B: We're meeting up with bacon. We're able to find Shantay. So we're going to work together to shelter the right over here.
[00:02:30] Speaker E: And then this would make me have to have a third time. Every time I have surgery, I get bad infection and I've died. I've had MRsa twice. I've had to stay in hospital for like eight weeks and good. Lying to my heart and feel a nightmare. So I just haven't done so I can check because I had like three blood chances in the manual right after me.
[00:02:52] Speaker B: So are you interested.
[00:02:55] Speaker F: Are you interested in going through like, a detox rehab facility or you just want to get inside?
[00:03:01] Speaker E: I just want to get inside.
[00:03:02] Speaker F: Want to get inside?
[00:03:03] Speaker D: Okay. All right.
[00:03:04] Speaker A: Let me.
[00:03:04] Speaker G: Let me make a quick phone call.
[00:03:05] Speaker D: Real quick.
[00:03:06] Speaker B: Let me call somebody real quick.
[00:03:09] Speaker C: Shanti, this is.
[00:03:12] Speaker B: You want a bottle of water?
[00:03:14] Speaker C: I can get you a cigarette, too, if you want.
That going good. There we go.
[00:03:24] Speaker D: Yeah, that's what.
[00:03:25] Speaker B: Shantay, you want a water?
[00:03:31] Speaker C: I love that shirt, bro.
Good to see you. How you feeling? You okay?
Banged up a little bit.
[00:03:41] Speaker D: Yeah. My ankle messed up, but it's okay.
[00:03:44] Speaker C: All right.
[00:03:47] Speaker B: Our guest just arrived.
[00:03:49] Speaker D: Jim. Good.
[00:03:50] Speaker B: And we're gonna have him meet us here. I got an associate of ours that.
He's gonna bring Jim here, so we're gonna start on a riding over to breeze.
[00:04:02] Speaker C: We can get a walker. Terrence.
[00:04:08] Speaker F: You have a TPI form with you, right?
[00:04:10] Speaker C: Not a TPI form? No, not on me.
[00:04:14] Speaker D: You doing okay?
[00:04:20] Speaker G: What can we do?
[00:04:23] Speaker B: Where are the TPI? I mean, do we have tpi forms?
[00:04:25] Speaker C: I don't have them on me. I'd have to go to a printer and print them.
[00:04:27] Speaker B: I know we printed a bunch.
[00:04:29] Speaker C: Yeah. I don't have any on me, though. Yeah, I need to put some in my jacket, but I can do that.
[00:04:34] Speaker A: So we're down here, second in Gleeson.
[00:04:37] Speaker B: And we obviously met up with Shantae, and, you know, it's gonna take a little bit of time to process the paperwork and find that shelter that we.
[00:04:48] Speaker A: Can get her into, because there isn't.
[00:04:50] Speaker B: A central data system. We can't just go online as a nonprofit or as a security company or a public entity or a private entity of any type. You can't just go online and see all the shelter beds available and all the entities and pick one and have it. There's not a central location where you.
[00:05:07] Speaker A: Can do that from.
[00:05:08] Speaker B: You have to just keep calling shelter shelters, and every shelter has different paperwork.
[00:05:12] Speaker A: They all have to be.
[00:05:13] Speaker B: Every individual has to be screened.
[00:05:15] Speaker A: So this can take 30 minutes.
[00:05:16] Speaker B: It can take 3 hours.
So that's kind of. Kind of catching you up on what's going on right now. But we have our guest en route, Jim.
[00:05:23] Speaker D: Good.
[00:05:25] Speaker B: He's like a de escalation guru in this industry. He works strictly with law enforcement. He's amazing. He'll be here maybe in five or ten minutes, so.
Yeah, we'll keep it working.
[00:05:36] Speaker F: Yeah, no, we're working on right now. If I can't get her into something that's comfortable for tonight, I'm just gonna get our hotel voucher for tonight until we can get her in tomorrow.
[00:05:42] Speaker A: Yeah, I like that.
[00:05:42] Speaker F: So I want to make sure she gets in and gets a good night's sleep tonight, so.
[00:05:46] Speaker C: Been out too long. How long have you been out?
Haven't been out here on the street.
A couple of years right now. Was there. Was that the only time that you've been out or were you out in the street before that?
So total, like three years, four years. That's a long time out here. You definitely could use a good night's sleep. I think we can make that happen. Yeah.
[00:06:36] Speaker F: About a month ago.
[00:06:38] Speaker C: She's a manager, some of these copy.
[00:06:41] Speaker F: And she said that she had them going for like 425 a month.
Try to see if I could find.
[00:06:49] Speaker B: Seven one, two to 740. Can I get you to take that call?
[00:06:54] Speaker E: Thank you.
[00:07:04] Speaker B: Can I have you swing by trailhead first?
[00:07:07] Speaker F: The latest call, it seems to be thunderwalker with the.
[00:07:10] Speaker G: That's what I was talking about.
[00:07:12] Speaker F: A cute little pattern on it for you.
[00:07:14] Speaker E: Thank you so much.
[00:07:15] Speaker D: You're welcome.
[00:07:17] Speaker E: Thank you.
[00:07:18] Speaker G: Would that be more comfortable?
[00:07:19] Speaker F: Sit on that one.
[00:07:20] Speaker E: Oh, I will do, but I'm fine. Thank you so much.
[00:07:36] Speaker C: Yeah.
Doing okay, honey?
[00:07:41] Speaker B: So she's a little bit off.
[00:07:42] Speaker C: Sleepy, or did you like.
[00:07:44] Speaker A: She's nodding off. It looks like she's used recently, and so we're just monitoring that situation.
[00:07:52] Speaker B: Obviously, that's why she's been up for.
[00:07:57] Speaker A: Gosh, I don't know, 1520 years.
[00:07:59] Speaker C: Yeah. Oh, well. No, you do. Well, I'm glad you got it because we're gonna connect some dots for you today.
[00:08:04] Speaker D: That's right.
[00:08:06] Speaker C: I'm glad you did.
Yeah, she said she slept twice, 20 minutes last night.
[00:08:10] Speaker A: What's up, bro?
[00:08:13] Speaker D: It's good to see you, man. How you been?
[00:08:18] Speaker B: Welcome to the ride along. This is Jim good. We're gonna get you mic'd up. So you typically would meet in studio and do a little bit of a, you know, podcast, talk a little bit. But we met Shanta yesterday and she.
[00:08:29] Speaker A: Said she was wanting to get into a shelter. We were able to reconnect with her, and so we're forgetting our shelter right now.
[00:08:34] Speaker D: Awesome. So we do, right? Awesome.
[00:08:36] Speaker B: So we're here on the streets, second in Gleeson, downtown Portland. They call it this the area. They call it Old Town or Chinatown. Jim good just was able to meet us here. We had my cousin bring him from the studio.
[00:08:47] Speaker A: Jim, why don't you introduce yourself to the folks?
[00:08:49] Speaker D: Hello there.
[00:08:49] Speaker G: My name is Jim Good, currently working as a mental health crisis counselor training supervisor out in Hood River county, in Bosco county, in Sherman County, Oregon. And Alex invited me down. Check out what he's doing downtown Portland here. So really excited to be here, and it's awesome. It's a pleasure to be here. So.
[00:09:08] Speaker B: So you're kind of like a guru, right? I mean, I try. That's what I call. And you basically just ride with law enforcement and help them deescalate.
[00:09:17] Speaker G: I mean, do all kinds of things. So, to give you an example, last night, I got a call from the Dallas police department about 1130 last night, and a gentleman who was highly intoxicated on alcohol threatening to jump off his sister's second story balcony. So went out there to help him de escalate him.
Took us about an hour to talk him into voluntarily getting transported to the hospital. So we got him up there and situated, and everyone's safe and sound and awesome. Check that off as a win.
[00:09:42] Speaker B: So he's doing what we're doing, but he's getting paid, and he's a professional, which is awesome. So we're gonna be interested in his feedback today. Boc, why don't you come in?
[00:09:50] Speaker C: Hey.
[00:09:51] Speaker G: Hey, there.
[00:09:51] Speaker C: Michael.
[00:09:52] Speaker D: Jim.
[00:09:52] Speaker G: Nice to meet you.
[00:09:52] Speaker C: Good to meet you, Jim. Yeah.
[00:09:54] Speaker B: So Bach has a background as an EMT and also worked at Emmanuel.
[00:09:57] Speaker C: I did.
[00:09:58] Speaker B: And then. So he kind of is. This is who we're gonna ride with today.
[00:10:02] Speaker G: Perfect.
[00:10:02] Speaker B: Ride along with. Bach has background in law enforcement as well. That's Spencer background in law enforcement, and also did mental health work at Emmanuel Terrence. So they run our nonprofit called loving one another. And so they're right now facilitating getting Shantae, who we ran into yesterday, on.
[00:10:19] Speaker A: A ride along into a shelter space.
[00:10:22] Speaker B: So this is something we typically do. Last month, we sheltered about 140 people. We get them into a shelter or detox or unity. We get them some type of service where they're, you know, better off than they were when we found them.
[00:10:32] Speaker A: That's the idea, right?
[00:10:33] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:10:34] Speaker A: So let's just jump in.
[00:10:35] Speaker D: Sounds good. All right. Join the team. Cool.
[00:10:38] Speaker B: Hey, Spence, this is my buddy Jim.
[00:10:40] Speaker D: Hey, Jim.
[00:10:40] Speaker F: How you doing?
[00:10:40] Speaker G: Hey, there.
[00:10:41] Speaker F: Nice to meet you.
[00:10:41] Speaker G: Nice to meet you.
[00:10:42] Speaker D: Yes.
[00:10:42] Speaker B: Was any updates?
[00:10:45] Speaker F: We're trying to get her into she. Because she won't go to certain shelters she's assaulted.
[00:10:50] Speaker D: Yeah, yeah.
[00:10:51] Speaker F: So we're trying to get her to a shelter. If not, we're gonna put her in a hotel for the night.
[00:10:56] Speaker D: Okay.
[00:10:56] Speaker F: And then tomorrow, we sure get her in, but we're gonna try to also get a permanent housing. I called somebody a joint.
[00:11:02] Speaker D: Oh, good.
[00:11:02] Speaker F: So.
[00:11:03] Speaker D: Okay, good.
[00:11:03] Speaker F: Try to get her some more permanent housing.
[00:11:05] Speaker G: So it shouldn't be that hard.
[00:11:06] Speaker D: No.
[00:11:07] Speaker F: So we're gonna get it. We're gonna take care of her. I'll make sure she gets inside tonight. So just trying to find more resources here.
[00:11:13] Speaker A: What's your time frame to hear back on the shelter option?
[00:11:17] Speaker F: Hopefully next 1015 minutes.
[00:11:19] Speaker D: Okay, good.
[00:11:20] Speaker A: Nice.
[00:11:20] Speaker B: So if not, you're not gonna leave.
[00:11:22] Speaker F: Until I find out.
[00:11:24] Speaker B: Are you gonna drive with her? You're gonna use a radio cab if you wanna. If she goes to a hotel, I'll just take her.
[00:11:29] Speaker D: Okay.
[00:11:30] Speaker G: I'll just take her.
[00:11:31] Speaker D: Nice.
[00:11:32] Speaker F: It's just down there.
[00:11:35] Speaker B: So we have deals with hotels, and if we can't get them in a service that day, we just shell. We just bridge them in hotel. And I think.
[00:11:43] Speaker D: I think you do that.
[00:11:43] Speaker B: The other day we were talking about.
[00:11:44] Speaker G: Yep, we do the same thing.
[00:11:46] Speaker C: Yeah, sure.
[00:11:46] Speaker B: Of course, you have a county budget or a city budget probably to pay for that. And we're just a nonprofit, but we're doing the best we can. That's all we can do.
[00:11:55] Speaker F: Did you get to eat lunch at Blanche?
[00:11:58] Speaker D: You didn't?
[00:11:59] Speaker C: Are you hungry?
[00:12:00] Speaker F: What do you want?
[00:12:07] Speaker D: Good.
[00:12:08] Speaker B: So we'd run, like I said, ten blocks away, we would have a resource center.
[00:12:11] Speaker A: And then they'll probably end up taking.
[00:12:13] Speaker B: Her by there, get her new clothes.
[00:12:14] Speaker A: Fresh clothing, shoes, everything.
[00:12:16] Speaker B: She's gonna need to feel comfortable and.
[00:12:18] Speaker A: Safe for that nap for tonight.
[00:12:20] Speaker B: So that way, when she's transitioning into.
[00:12:22] Speaker A: A shelter, she has all clean clothing.
Huge, right?
[00:12:26] Speaker D: That's so good.
[00:12:27] Speaker B: So important for the mental health to have something clean and nice.
[00:12:33] Speaker D: Awesome.
[00:12:33] Speaker B: So she's giving personal information to housing and to the sheltering service. So we kind of wanted to step away.
[00:12:39] Speaker A: You know, we want to respect her.
[00:12:41] Speaker B: Hipaa rights and all of her personal information. We don't want to give out her last name. Right. We're here to help people, not shame them for being a drug addict or addicted to substances.
[00:12:50] Speaker D: Right.
[00:12:51] Speaker B: And so as they're kind of handling.
[00:12:52] Speaker A: That situation, I thought we'd pull Jim.
[00:12:54] Speaker B: Aside and kind of just go through his history, who he is. So I met Jim out in a different county where I was currently law enforcement, and I was a therapeutic foster parent. And so our paths would cross because you were also, like, a program director in mental health in that same county. And we became good friends. We would call each other, hang out, whatever, and just talk about all the horrible situations we're constantly finding ourselves in.
Cause it kind of in this job, emergency services, when you're dealing with stuff, you need someone in that lifestyle that you can bond with, that you can kind of do your after action and debriefs and decompress with and so Jim's kind of been one of those guys for me, especially when I was going through a lot of critical incidents. Right. He was one of the guys I would call and debrief with. And so we kind of bonded really quick. Noticed that you were an extreme professional, and you ended up taking a job in another location. So we haven't been able to hang out for years.
And so, yeah, just kind of tells, like, number one, why did you choose the profession you're in? What led to that?
[00:14:03] Speaker G: That's a good question. I think it started in third grade. We had a large playground that was cement. And I remember running out in third grade and seeing a motorcycle officer across the street. Street pulling people over in the school zone. I thought that was absolutely fascinating. And I've always loved motorcycles, so really, I just want to be a motor officer just from a really small age.
[00:14:25] Speaker D: That's awesome.
[00:14:26] Speaker G: So I was really attracted to law enforcement, and as things progressed, interested in probation, just wanted to get into that field. So over the last six years, I've been working as a mobile mental health crisis supervisor, a training supervisor. Literally live and breathe this. Oh, I mean, it's really a lifestyle. It's really worth it. We're in a different world, and it's awesome. And we get to see things that other people don't get to see. So it's really privilege to see that side of life and to really help people in the front lines and in the trenches and like, to get my hands dirty.
[00:14:59] Speaker B: I love it.
[00:14:59] Speaker G: That's why I'm here.
[00:15:00] Speaker B: This is the work. This is the work to do that.
[00:15:02] Speaker C: Absolutely.
[00:15:02] Speaker B: And you, you were a reserve police officer for a while, so. But you kind of determined that you really kind of, like, balk. Cause Bach was also in that law enforcement. You wanted to really focus on someone's mental health. And, you know, and as police officers, you really carry a criminal mandate, and your job is to find crimes, and you're not really helping people transition into a better living situation. In fact, your main role is really, you're seeking the long term violation of their rights in a prison situation.
[00:15:36] Speaker D: Situation, right.
[00:15:38] Speaker B: And so you really shined when it came to mental health. Obviously, you're gifted in this area, seeing the juxtaposition, like, how difficult is it in law enforcement when you're going call. To call, to stop and deescalate a situation and spend all that time with someone and to get them in resources?
[00:15:54] Speaker D: How?
[00:15:55] Speaker B: I mean, as a police officer, I know I had very little time to do that.
[00:15:58] Speaker A: What are your thoughts on that I.
[00:15:59] Speaker G: Think just to back up a little bit, I was, please explore with Lake Oswego PD for about five years, and they basically had the best explorer post in the state at that point. They had a high reputation, so I joined that one.
Every summer we compete in what's called law enforcement challenge.
[00:16:16] Speaker D: Oh, that's awesome.
[00:16:17] Speaker G: About 3350 people with kids would show up, explore posts from all over the state and throw it out there. I got second place in precision driving and third place in filming foot pursuit over competing with about 300 people.
[00:16:28] Speaker B: That's awesome.
[00:16:29] Speaker G: Still have the trophies. I'm pretty proud of that.
So, yeah, my goal is to get into law enforcement, and then when I got into college, I went down a more academic path and ended up getting a master's degree in social psychology and really, like, the learning aspect. So I went on my first ride along back in 1986 out of central precinct, swing shift. And the entire time the officer tried to talk me out of getting in the law enforcement. So that was the first kind of, like, reality check of, maybe this is not. Maybe this is not what I'm thinking it is.
[00:17:01] Speaker D: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:17:02] Speaker G: And, I mean, I'm 100% pro law enforcement. I think it's one of the most challenging jobs in terms of managing your own mental health, physical health, relationships, et cetera, et cetera. So, you know, luckily, I have time as a mobile mental health crisis counselor that I can slow down, slow down, slow down, listen, listen. You know, make time for people and really change the mindset of, I want to build a relationship with you, because ultimately, I think life's about spirituality and relationships.
[00:17:31] Speaker D: It is.
[00:17:32] Speaker G: And so any contact I have with anybody, it's the first start of the relationship, hopefully, and I'm going to take that as.
As far as I can with the person allowing, you know, that boundary.
[00:17:43] Speaker D: So I love it.
[00:17:44] Speaker G: I feel like, you know, make contact with you. I'm there to support you for the rest of my life. Rest of your life. And so I have a really, really fundamental value on that. So I don't work from, like, a superficial perspective. It's really, really deep as far as relationships and spirituality, and I want those connections, you know, forever.
[00:18:04] Speaker B: Exactly, yeah.
[00:18:05] Speaker G: And so it's not like, so in this situation, I'm helping one individual. I don't see it as like a, we're out here for 45 minutes, help this individual, and that's over. I don't see it that way. This is like, hopefully I get to meet this person, start that relationship, and hopefully I get to see her again in the future, help her out.
[00:18:19] Speaker B: In fact, I would.
She already kind of knew who we were yesterday. We rolled up and I said, hey, you know, loving one another.
[00:18:26] Speaker D: Oh, yeah. I know.
[00:18:27] Speaker B: Y'all help people get into shelter. And then she came back to our vehicle as we were just about to drive away. She goes, I'm ready. Today's the day.
[00:18:34] Speaker D: I'm done.
[00:18:35] Speaker B: And it's because we had that relationship, you know, the team, the street crew over here with Loa, and then all of our guards are always constantly building that relationship. And without that relationship, no one's going to trust you.
[00:18:48] Speaker G: And in terms of safety, the current agency I work for, I put on a two day safety training, and for my money, the better relationship I have with you, the safer I am. The safer you are.
If I have to give you really directive feedback and ask you to do this or that, you're way more likely to listen and not come at me. If we have trust, we have a relationship.
[00:19:06] Speaker B: I love it.
Hey, so we got.
[00:19:15] Speaker G: We got four options.
[00:19:16] Speaker F: We're working right now.
[00:19:17] Speaker D: Okay?
[00:19:17] Speaker B: I love it. Four options.
[00:19:19] Speaker G: Four options.
[00:19:19] Speaker F: We're looking. We're working right to right to dream.
And then there's another place out there safer, one of the saferest villages.
[00:19:28] Speaker D: Okay.
[00:19:30] Speaker F: We're also working called Starlight.
[00:19:33] Speaker D: Okay. I haven't heard of them.
[00:19:35] Speaker F: And, um, one other one. So working the other. The other one, I can take her today and go triage her today, and she'll.
[00:19:43] Speaker A: She works.
[00:19:44] Speaker F: She'll live in a, like, a communal area for, like, 30 days, and then she'll get into her own place. So.
So we're just trying to figure out the best option. Oh, we're also working on BipOc Village, too.
[00:19:54] Speaker D: Okay. Yeah, nice.
[00:19:58] Speaker F: We got her some McDonald's coming, and I bought her a prepaid phone. So she has a phone.
[00:20:02] Speaker D: Oh, that's legit.
[00:20:03] Speaker F: So we have a deal with Fred Meyers that give us a drill to get that prepaid phone.
[00:20:08] Speaker C: That's good.
[00:20:08] Speaker B: One of the hardest challenges we have, just ten years ago, less than 2% of the population was female.
[00:20:16] Speaker D: Right.
[00:20:17] Speaker B: And now we're currently in Portland. Almost 20% of the unhoused population are female. But the sheltering capacity for that female population never increased. And so there's always a gap. There's a shortage of beds available and shelters for women. And so it's extremely hard to get a shelter for a woman. Very difficult.
[00:20:42] Speaker G: So typically, folks need to show up at a certain time of the day, or is it you have to call.
[00:20:47] Speaker F: First thing in the morning at 930.
[00:20:48] Speaker B: You have to.
[00:20:49] Speaker F: By noon, they'll all be full.
[00:20:51] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:20:51] Speaker C: 03:00 no way. Yeah, there's no way. 03:00. It's just done.
[00:20:55] Speaker B: And then weekends and nights, not gonna happen. So that's what, that's where the hotel thing comes in, as you know. Got a bridge with the hotel. Critical. People always say there's a high level of resistance. Resistance among the houseless population to want change.
And I tell people all the time, well, yeah, if you just, if you randomly contact someone in the middle of the day and you say, hey, you want to change your life right now? They're gonna be like, no, I'm actually trying to find food. I haven't eaten in 24 hours. But if you contact them every day, every single day, seven days a week, that they're likely to want change two times.
[00:21:33] Speaker D: Right.
[00:21:34] Speaker B: And so that's why we're consistently out here. All of our officers, when they go on patrol, they have to carry a toad of resources with everything. They're always connected to the street team with Spencer and Terrence, who's out getting her resources. And so we're constantly contacting every single person.
[00:21:49] Speaker D: Nice. Hey, man. How you doing? Jazzy?
[00:21:50] Speaker B: How you doing, bro?
[00:21:51] Speaker D: You need anything?
[00:21:52] Speaker B: You ready to change? You ready to get to a shelter? You want to detox? Every day, having that conversation.
[00:21:57] Speaker D: Should we.
[00:21:57] Speaker B: Should we sit her down more and more?
[00:21:59] Speaker C: I mean, the ground's dirty, but.
[00:22:01] Speaker D: I know.
[00:22:02] Speaker C: Hey, Shawn T. Sweetie. Hey. I keep getting worried about you falling over.
Are ya?
[00:22:10] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:22:11] Speaker C: Okay. Last thing I want is to have you get, you know, get injured. Okay. Okay.
It's chronic pain. It's post surgery. Yeah. So it's. Yeah. After the conversation we've had with her, what's surgery for? I didn't hear that part.
[00:22:25] Speaker F: She's got fibromyalgia really bad.
[00:22:26] Speaker D: Okay. Okay.
[00:22:27] Speaker F: She needs a knee surgery.
[00:22:29] Speaker C: Needs a knee surgery. There we go. That was the part. I was having a hard time hearing her. I thought it was hose surgery.
[00:22:35] Speaker D: Hey, honey.
[00:22:36] Speaker B: How you guys doing?
[00:22:38] Speaker D: Good.
[00:22:39] Speaker C: Good to see you.
Hope you have a wonderful day.
Trying, honey.
[00:22:46] Speaker B: Always.
[00:22:46] Speaker C: I'm trying.
She, uh, she asked me about my wife, how she was doing post surgery. She's a real sweetheart. Yeah, she does.
[00:22:54] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:22:56] Speaker B: Well, hey, we're gonna, we'll check back in with you. Just give us a call.
[00:22:59] Speaker D: Yep. Yep. All right.
[00:23:00] Speaker B: We're gonna roll out. We're gonna continue to ride along because there's 4500 people chronically unhoused and in need in Portland. 1% of the population of the population of Portland have been living unhoused for more than a year, and so we're gonna go out and make more contacts today and hopefully change the life, maybe build a relationship.
[00:23:22] Speaker D: Awesome.
[00:23:23] Speaker B: All right, let's do it.
[00:23:24] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:23:24] Speaker B: Let's roll.
Give us a call, bro.
[00:23:33] Speaker D: Awesome.
[00:23:33] Speaker B: So we're just leaving Shanta and Spencer again. This process is. It's a long process. It can take 30 minutes, 3 hours. It can even take 48 hours. But we're gonna at least get this resolved today. We've been working on it already for 24 hours, and we'll hopefully hook up with them later on in the day.
[00:23:54] Speaker D: Awesome.
[00:23:54] Speaker B: So we're currently patrolling around, you know, looking for possibly anyone nodding off, maybe overdosing. I'm sure you've watched other episodes where we've literally went out, saved lives, performed.
[00:24:06] Speaker A: Emergency medical care, and so kind of.
[00:24:09] Speaker B: Looking for that right now. Patrolling the district BoC just received a call. Shanti, our contact from earlier this morning and who we originally had in contact with on a ride along from a previous show or day, Spencer was able to get her into a shelter in a suburb called Beaverton, a suburb of the Portland area. And that area just happens to be very close to where her family lives, which is always great when you're in recovery. Having that family around you, that family system, it always greatly increases the odds.
[00:24:44] Speaker D: Of a successful recovery.
[00:24:47] Speaker B: And now we're back in old town. We're just patrolling.
[00:24:50] Speaker C: I want to go up around the corner past this tent. You probably didn't see him, but he's up there on the left, so they.
[00:24:57] Speaker B: Already passed the no tent law. I saw that in the news.
[00:25:01] Speaker D: Hey, man. Tent.
[00:25:03] Speaker C: You doing okay under there? Brout you for a second?
[00:25:09] Speaker D: Okay.
[00:25:12] Speaker C: You doing okay, my man?
Okay. Do you need a cigarette or anything?
All right. I was just worried of checking on and make sure you were breathing okay.
[00:25:29] Speaker D: You good? Yeah.
[00:25:30] Speaker C: I'm gonna go this way.
[00:25:32] Speaker A: Do you know if there's anyone up on the roof right now?
[00:25:34] Speaker D: Currently?
[00:25:35] Speaker A: Have you seen anyone on the fire escape?
[00:25:37] Speaker D: How long have you been here.
[00:25:41] Speaker C: Sweetheart?
[00:25:43] Speaker B: Yeah, we had a couple people there last night. The roof collapsed.
Security.
[00:25:48] Speaker C: What about it?
[00:25:49] Speaker B: The other, like, three quarters of this block want to collapse, and so we've had multiple calls that people are on the roof here partying at night.
[00:25:57] Speaker C: Well, how can I help you? I was a little concerned because I. I heard a whole bunch of screaming. I figured I'd check, make sure you're good.
Yeah. This is something I can help you with.
[00:26:12] Speaker G: What's going on for her?
No worries. We're just checking on her. Make sure is the issue that you.
[00:26:19] Speaker C: Want to talk to your family or. No.
Okay.
Where are your kids at? I can. Might be able to help you get into a shelter if you're interested in that.
[00:26:46] Speaker B: So I think I hear me telling this roof collapsed.
[00:26:51] Speaker A: So this.
[00:26:53] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, it sounds.
[00:26:57] Speaker B: Cars inside, like, two thirds of this entire roof.
[00:27:00] Speaker A: From that, like, can you move gold.
[00:27:02] Speaker C: Brick so I can see it?
[00:27:07] Speaker B: There's, like, 40 cars.
[00:27:08] Speaker C: I'm happy to help you.
[00:27:09] Speaker B: I would just need to know, like.
[00:27:12] Speaker C: If it's auto shop, you know, where they're at random.
[00:27:18] Speaker B: There's nothing in them.
[00:27:26] Speaker D: Me?
[00:27:26] Speaker B: Well, I'm part of a nonprofit called loving one another.
[00:27:29] Speaker C: I mean, you know, I'm just security, honey, but I'm. I'm here just to talk to you.
[00:27:33] Speaker B: People get to show.
[00:27:34] Speaker C: Hopefully I can help you. I'm not a security guard.
[00:27:36] Speaker B: We're rolling with him today.
[00:27:37] Speaker C: I can't guarantee an hour, but I can tell you I can try. Is that good enough? All right, then.
[00:27:43] Speaker B: Are you interesting in going to a shelter or a program?
[00:27:46] Speaker D: One that's like, do good? Yeah.
[00:27:51] Speaker C: Doing okay.
[00:27:54] Speaker B: Do you know Spencer? How long have you been on the.
[00:27:56] Speaker A: Streets in old Town?
[00:27:58] Speaker B: For a while.
[00:27:58] Speaker C: Yeah. I think people are accessing the roof.
[00:28:00] Speaker D: Okay.
[00:28:01] Speaker C: They're accessing the roof through the stairwell.
[00:28:03] Speaker B: So he can help you get in. He can help you transition. He does all of our transitions.
I know there's a program called Victory outreach.
[00:28:09] Speaker C: Be hopping up, pulling it down.
[00:28:10] Speaker B: They have six beds.
[00:28:11] Speaker A: They're in Beaverton.
[00:28:12] Speaker B: Yeah, so it's. It's a ways out. It's in the suburbs.
[00:28:16] Speaker E: Okay.
[00:28:18] Speaker C: Okay.
[00:28:18] Speaker D: Okay for, uh. Yeah.
[00:28:21] Speaker B: Columbia county or what?
[00:28:23] Speaker D: Multima county.
Okay.
All right.
[00:28:28] Speaker B: He's interested in a shelter, but he needs to stay in Multima county because he's on paper.
[00:28:31] Speaker C: Okay.
[00:28:32] Speaker B: The county.
[00:28:33] Speaker D: Okay.
[00:28:33] Speaker B: He's on probation. No, there's a letter that goes all.
[00:28:35] Speaker D: The way up there.
[00:28:36] Speaker C: Yeah, I know him.
He can hop out and go all the way up. Yeah, I gotta call at the Mandarin house. I gotta go.
[00:28:43] Speaker D: Yes. Yeah.
[00:28:43] Speaker C: Okay.
[00:28:45] Speaker D: All right.
[00:28:46] Speaker C: All right.
[00:28:47] Speaker A: What's your name?
[00:28:48] Speaker C: Are you gonna be here for a bit?
[00:28:51] Speaker D: What's your name? Nate.
[00:28:53] Speaker B: Alex. I'm gonna tell switchman to come by and talk to you.
[00:28:55] Speaker A: They're in flanders.
[00:28:56] Speaker D: Okay.
[00:29:02] Speaker C: Okay. So when I get my first. And I'll get that one as well.
[00:29:09] Speaker B: So just to recap, again, we popped out of the van real quick. Looks like someone might have been overdosing.
[00:29:14] Speaker D: Checked on him. He was good.
[00:29:16] Speaker B: Then we heard some yelling across the street. Sound like it might have been a physical altercation. It's right next to a building that yesterday morning, or 130 in the morning, the entire roof fell in, crushed a bunch of vehicles.
[00:29:26] Speaker A: And so we.
[00:29:27] Speaker B: We have already had a lot of activity in that area, so we went.
[00:29:30] Speaker D: Over there and checked it out.
[00:29:32] Speaker B: Sounds like she was just really angry with herself, kind of in a commitment of having a meant to help her.
So bock kind of talked to us a little bit.
[00:29:43] Speaker D: We're on our way.
[00:29:44] Speaker C: We've got a long standing relationship with her that any 6th grade teacher would. Mark means improvement on the report card.
Hard to work with, for sure.
Often yelling, racial slurs and threats, and others often very heightened.
Today was no different in the period that she was talking to.
[00:30:07] Speaker B: So what's the nature of the call?
[00:30:09] Speaker C: It just says somebody's asleep at the front door, blocking, essentially, but there's nobody here.
[00:30:16] Speaker B: So they probably were just dining off a little bit, maybe.
[00:30:22] Speaker C: Are you doing okay? Do you need anything?
You're fine.
Okay.
[00:30:36] Speaker B: We got some water in the van, man. You doing water?
[00:31:01] Speaker C: Thanks, man. I appreciate you being cool.
[00:31:04] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:31:04] Speaker C: Are you getting all the food you need and all that?
Okay. All right.
If you ever want to, you know, get into a shelter or anything like that, feel free to hook me up, man. I'm happy to help if you do. Okay.
[00:31:19] Speaker B: You know, the current model is that field of dreams. If you build it, they will come.
[00:31:26] Speaker A: Everyone is just stuck in their office.
[00:31:28] Speaker B: Expecting all these people to just know where that office is. And they're just gonna walk there and.
[00:31:32] Speaker A: Shove one day, and they're just gonna.
[00:31:34] Speaker B: Be ready for change, and they're gonna make all those decisions. They gotta know how to navigate that. Having enough food and water to get there, know how to steal a shopping cart and get all their stuff packed just the right way.
[00:31:46] Speaker C: No cigarette, right?
[00:31:48] Speaker B: And it's like, who does it like that when you're on the street?
[00:31:52] Speaker A: No one does.
[00:31:53] Speaker B: That's not a thing.
[00:31:55] Speaker A: And so being able to contact folks.
[00:31:57] Speaker B: On the street and help them where they are, you know, that's the only thing that makes a difference, like, who's.
[00:32:03] Speaker A: Who's gonna contact these people?
[00:32:05] Speaker C: And I'll be in around. Who's gonna contact?
[00:32:07] Speaker B: Because that lady, she's not walking to.
[00:32:10] Speaker A: Some random nonprofit or county building right now.
[00:32:14] Speaker D: So you know where they are.
[00:32:16] Speaker A: These people are in a daze. They're smoking fentanyl. They don't know where your office is.
[00:32:23] Speaker B: You know what I mean?
[00:32:24] Speaker G: I do.
[00:32:24] Speaker D: I do.
[00:32:25] Speaker B: And there's no judgment on them for that. They're addicted to substances.
But when you're smoking fentanyl all day and literally a white is fifty cents and a blue is a dollar.
And the high you get today you can get for $3 would easily be 20 or 30.
[00:32:41] Speaker A: These people have no agency.
[00:32:42] Speaker B: The drugs are robbing them of it. So we have to go on the street and talk to people every day.
So we've been on patrol here. We'll be giving away Jim, good box in the back.
[00:32:57] Speaker A: And this is a hotter summer day.
[00:33:00] Speaker B: And usually that's that heat kind of tamps down a lot of the activity that would take place usually in the day that's not so hot.
And usually that means that you're going to get more activity in the later end of a swing shift or at night because people are probably passed out.
[00:33:17] Speaker G: Sleeping.
[00:33:20] Speaker B: There'S just a lot less activity. So we're gonna go ahead and hit up the studio. Typically we would have hit up the studio before we rolled out, but we.
[00:33:27] Speaker A: Kind of had a situation where we.
[00:33:28] Speaker B: Wanted to really beat this lady and get into a shelter. We're gonna go and park and meet you back in the studio.
[00:33:34] Speaker A: Hey, Alex Dome, back at the ride along. Our guest today is my good friend Jim.
[00:33:40] Speaker D: Good.
[00:33:40] Speaker A: Jim's kind of a guru in the de escalation mental health field. He's been working along alongside law enforcement for several years now, about four or five years. And you know, this is kind of a little bit of a different show. We started in the field. We had a situation that allowed us to get a lady into shelter, and she's been living on the streets for over two years. I think she spent a total of 16 years homeless on the streets of Portland.
So we took our that opportunity to just jump right in the field. Jim Meta is there. Jim, thanks for showing up today. I know it's kind of a, kind of a choppy day going back and forth in and out of the field. Why don't you reintroduce yourself to the folks and tell us a little bit about yourself?
[00:34:25] Speaker D: Sure.
[00:34:25] Speaker G: Well, first of all, I definitely want to thank you for inviting me and have a lot of gratitude and respect for you and just really glad to be here and be a part of what you're doing. I think it's just really, truly amazing at every level.
[00:34:38] Speaker D: So thanks, brother.
[00:34:39] Speaker G: I feel like this is an honor to be a part of what you're doing. Just really happy to be here. My name is Jim Good.
Coming up on about 30 years working in the mental health field.
1st 18 years was with juveniles and families, worked with a lot of kids on probation, struggling behaviorally as far as mental health with kids, I worked in every aspect from wilderness Base, worked in a wilderness based residential program in Arizona. Correctional facilities, outpatient clinics, you name it. I've done everything in the mental health field with kids.
[00:35:13] Speaker A: In fact, that's kind of how we met. I was a therapeutic foster parent here in the state of Oregon, which would be the highest level of childcare outside of acute or subacute care, kind of outside of that lockdown facility, type of care for juveniles. And you were working at the mental health facility in my county, and we kind of became friends during that process.
[00:35:36] Speaker G: Absolutely, yeah.
[00:35:38] Speaker A: And you were fantastic then. I mean, you were killing it back then. You were known in the area as the most experienced person in the field and learned a lot from you then, obviously, I needed that. And so now what are you doing now?
[00:35:51] Speaker G: So, long story short, I had an opportunity to. Well, I should back up a little bit. I grew up here in Portland and started off in college down at southern Oregon State and then transitioned to a northern Arizona university in Flagstaff, Arizona. Lived in Arizona for eleven years, ended up moving back here and getting back in the mental health field. But coming up on eight years, I've lived out in Hood river.
[00:36:17] Speaker A: Beautiful out there.
[00:36:19] Speaker G: It's on the nicer side of things, for sure.
Great little community, great for families, great for kids.
So I started out there, got an opportunity to work at an outpatient clinic, basically developing a community based jail diversion program in Hood River county. So the agency is responsible for Wasco County, Sherman county. So at that point, they're expanding it to Hood River county.
[00:36:45] Speaker A: So kind of a tri county program.
[00:36:48] Speaker G: Correct. So the main person working in our jail diversion program at the time had, had Wasco county. The Dalles pretty much dialed. They wanted to expand it west toward Hood river. So I came on board. So I worked in jail diversion, community based jail diversion for two years. And that, you know, I literally went out and contacted every homeless person in Hood river alongside a doctor out there.
[00:37:09] Speaker A: This sounds very familiar.
[00:37:11] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:37:12] Speaker G: So.
And over the last six years, I've worked on our mobile mental health crisis team. So we do mobile response with law enforcement. We get calls to emergency rooms both in the Dallas and Hood river.
[00:37:25] Speaker A: So law enforcement agent, let's say Oregon State Police, they're out on a call. They have someone that they believe might be.
They're probably not drug induced psychoses, but. But showing some type of psychoses, mental health issue. They could call you as a resource to help them with that. Call.
[00:37:44] Speaker G: Absolutely. So law enforcement, over time, understands that if there's any inclination of a mental health disorder or someone struggling from mental health perspective or diagnosis or certainly if they're expressing any kind of si or suicidal ideation, homicidal ideation, as a default, they'll tend to contact our agency.
[00:38:05] Speaker A: That's phenomenal.
[00:38:06] Speaker G: And we provide 24/7 services. So, you know, I've had experiences where I get a call, 330 in the morning.
[00:38:14] Speaker A: So you're working the night shift.
[00:38:16] Speaker G: Correct.
[00:38:16] Speaker A: So you're having all the fun, right?
[00:38:19] Speaker G: Yeah, I definitely make it a point to have fun every day at work.
[00:38:23] Speaker B: Good.
[00:38:24] Speaker G: But, you know, after. So, for instance, last winter, we had a major blizzard. I get a call, 330 in the morning. There's a gentleman who's suicidal and getting ready to jump off a 60 foot cliff over rocks in the river, which definitely would be fatal. So I'm driving through a snowstorm on the freeway. You know, it was a foot and a half of snow. Law enforcement's calling and said, where are you? I'm going 15 miles an hour, so it's gonna be a while. But. So, yeah, we cover every type of call and every kind of condition.
[00:38:50] Speaker A: So essentially, every call that you're on is a crisis call.
[00:38:53] Speaker G: Correct.
[00:38:54] Speaker D: Wow.
[00:38:54] Speaker A: And you're typically working hand in hand with law enforcement almost every day.
[00:38:59] Speaker G: Correct.
[00:38:59] Speaker D: Wow.
[00:39:00] Speaker A: So this is kind of a common theme that runs throughout the show. We talk about how law enforcement, through really no choice or fault of their own, the mantle of mental health, kind of got thrusted upon law enforcement back in 1972. There is this very crucial Supreme Court decision. O'Connor v. Donaldson kind of had a sunset clause. Essentially. It said, you know, you can't keep someone locked up in care facilities against their will. This is a constitutional violation.
[00:39:32] Speaker D: Right.
[00:39:32] Speaker A: And you haven't met the threshold to do that. So the simple way to say it is being mentally insane is not against the law, and therefore, you cannot violate someone's rights long term.
[00:39:42] Speaker G: Correct.
[00:39:43] Speaker A: And so this sunset clause, you know, it came into effect essentially when Reagan was elected in 1980. And, you know, he takes the brunt of the blame for a lot of these state institutions having closed and the mentally ill being placed on the streets. Right. But when this Supreme Court decision happened, no one really, there was no plan in place as to who's going to take care of the mentally ill. Not that there are no facilities.
[00:40:10] Speaker D: Right.
[00:40:11] Speaker A: And almost every major contact that was occurring on the street level for those who are mentally ill, who, you know, no longer had the option to be in a mental institution because the funding went away and they closed. Almost every major contact began since the eighties to become a law enforcement contact.
[00:40:33] Speaker D: Right.
[00:40:34] Speaker A: And so law enforcement really became that tip of the spear dealing with this mental health issue on the street level. Even though they were never told they were going to be that or we were never told. I threw myself in there and, you know, I would say it wasn't until the early two thousands that police departments really started waking up to the realization that nothing's going to change, the Supreme Court decision is going to stay the same, it's not going to be overruled and that law enforcement is going to be stuck in the role of having to functionally deal with the mentally ill and also be in charge of the process of determining if that person is a danger to themselves or others.
And then after that determination, making the decision of should I then legally violate their rights? Put that civil hold, that mental health hold.
[00:41:29] Speaker D: Right.
[00:41:29] Speaker A: In Oregon, it's called a police officer hold, Poh to poh that subject, and then take them to a facility like unity or manual or some type of mental health facility.
[00:41:39] Speaker D: Right.
[00:41:39] Speaker A: And so eventually in the future, there has to be some multidisciplinary team approach where we have almost on every call someone that's, that has a master's such as yourself, someone that's degreed and has the experience, years of experience of mental health to be alongside those police officers every moment of the day. Do you foresee a time in the future where, you know, you're no longer just, you know, a crisis worker that they can call, but law enforcement will actually have these degrees. Law enforcement, you know, kind of like the firehouse brought the medics in the sixties and seventies that eventually fire, that the law enforcement agencies will realize they need people with our level of skillset working with them, alongside them every day. Do you foresee that in the future?
[00:42:27] Speaker G: You know, I think, Alex, I mean, the reality is, at least the communities I work, police officers do way more social work than I do.
I mean, they're going to call, I mean, their call volumes 100% is way more than us. So they do more de escalation, more social work, they're more social workers than.
[00:42:44] Speaker A: They are law enforcement, 100%.
[00:42:46] Speaker G: So that's kind of interesting. And now the, as the state of Oregon is trying to implement more mental health response and kind of bridge that gap, I'm actually taking more disturbance calls. I'm actually taking more law enforcement type calls, correct? Yeah, this is the trend, which is interesting. So it's kind of the roles are kind of switching, actually.
[00:43:09] Speaker A: So, yeah, so you're finding yourself on calls and you're like, wait, these are just people escalating because of a domestic. There's not a mental health component here.
[00:43:18] Speaker G: Correct.
I mean, there's always a mental health component.
[00:43:21] Speaker B: Right.
[00:43:21] Speaker G: So he's escalated. Or there's very true in crisis or, you know, the situation is concerning, you know, by default. We could define that as there's some kind of, you know, it's acute. Exactly.
[00:43:34] Speaker A: It's a short term.
[00:43:35] Speaker G: Exactly.
[00:43:36] Speaker A: A temporary loss of regulatory mental state. Someone's dysregulated.
[00:43:42] Speaker D: Right.
[00:43:43] Speaker A: And. And so they call their special weapon mister.
[00:43:48] Speaker D: Good.
[00:43:48] Speaker A: And to kind of get them to desolate in such a way that some compromise, civil compromise and or arrest can be affected with, with low levels of force.
[00:43:57] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:43:58] Speaker G: So I mean, historically, as you know, law enforcement's been under time pressure to clear calls, get back on the street constantly, you know, calls.
There's good reasons for that in terms of safety, officer safety, community safety officers available. So basically, you know, nine times out of ten, law enforcement will get to the situation first. Not always.
They'll call us, we'll come out, and as soon as things are, you know, to a degree of safety where everyone's stable enough where they can depart and get back on the street, cover the other side of town or the community.
[00:44:32] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:44:32] Speaker G: Then we have the time. You know, I had a supervisor way back that told me, how do you spell love?
[00:44:37] Speaker D: You spell it.
[00:44:37] Speaker G: T I m e time.
[00:44:38] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:44:39] Speaker G: So we have the time to.
Sometimes we don't, you know, things wax and wanes. We got to triage things as calls come in.
[00:44:46] Speaker A: Definitely more time depending on law enforcement officer.
[00:44:49] Speaker G: But typically I can spend as much time that I need to develop the rapport, the relationship and establishing that connection. That could be 3 hours. I'm just talking, just listening to somebody. That's amazing, and that makes a huge difference. And, hey, how's it going? See you later. Good luck. And enrolling out of there, that's not helpful.
[00:45:05] Speaker A: So I've suggested, and I've actually talked to people, and not only in the state of Oregon, but other state legislatures about the need to actually give the power of a psych hold or a police officer hold or a mental hold to fire rescue and emts and have them come in as sworn officers with the mandate of being able to perform that action. Or even mental health workers such as yourself.
[00:45:29] Speaker G: Yeah. So under Oregon law, in the counties that I work, I do have a legal authority. Put someone on a mental health hold or a director's hold. There's different terms for it, but I do have the legal authority under Oregon law to detain somebody. Actually, the law says that I could go hands on and use force. Of course, we don't do that because of, you know, we don't have the tools to do that. And for safety and whatnot, we have law enforcement do that. So typically, we're directing law enforcement. Hey, this person meets criteria for mental health hold.
[00:45:56] Speaker A: Kind of a director's hold.
[00:45:57] Speaker G: Correct. So mental health hold. Directors hold. Just a couple different.
[00:46:00] Speaker A: Yeah, you're just more important than that. It's such a good title to have a director's hold.
[00:46:04] Speaker G: So, you know, nine times out of ten, you know, we want somebody to be voluntary. We want someone to be cooperative to the process, because ultimately, we're gonna leave them at some point, and they're gonna have to take over in managing themselves. And if it's forced. Nobody likes to be forced to do anything.
[00:46:20] Speaker A: No.
[00:46:20] Speaker G: So nine times out of ten, we've got the time. Like I was talking to you earlier about talking a gentleman up to the emergency room last night.
[00:46:27] Speaker D: That's right.
[00:46:28] Speaker G: On a call, you know, took 45 minutes to an hour, but didn't have to go hands on. Everybody's safe and sound, made it to the emergency room, getting situated. So that's the first kind of opens the door for services. Longer term services.
[00:46:40] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:46:41] Speaker A: On my side of the field, we called that.
Talking them into the ambulance.
[00:46:46] Speaker D: Right. Yes.
[00:46:46] Speaker A: If they can. If they self commit to care. Because anyone's allowed to reject medical care.
[00:46:52] Speaker D: Right.
[00:46:52] Speaker A: You're not. Medical professionals can't, you know, if you're incapacitated, they can perform medical care, but as soon as you're no longer incapacitated and you can make. You have agency, you can make your own decisions, you can reject that medical care.
[00:47:06] Speaker G: Correct.
[00:47:06] Speaker A: And so the trick is how can you build rapport and then, while at the same time, build agency within that individual to both see the need and make the correct decision to get medical care.
[00:47:20] Speaker G: Correct.
[00:47:21] Speaker A: And this is what you do.
[00:47:22] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:47:23] Speaker A: So this is very difficult.
[00:47:24] Speaker D: Yeah. Wow.
[00:47:26] Speaker G: So, yeah, I mean, you're doing this.
[00:47:28] Speaker A: Every day, multiple times a day.
[00:47:30] Speaker G: I mean, the call volume waxes, wanes, but, yeah, yeah. Living, breathing, breathing, that kind of stuff.
[00:47:36] Speaker A: It's really amazing. And I'm people who. I mean, I'm sure there's a lot of police officers watching this, a lot of people in this industry that are watching this. And this is one of the most difficult jobs that law enforcement has. I had a call, one time I had a lady, she went into a, you know, grocery store completely naked, which in Oregon is not really illegal as long as you're not trying to excite anybody.
But she's on private property, so not in public premise open to the public, and decides that I some. I think she thought there was something going on, and she needed to cover her entire body in flour. So she broke up in a flour sack and patted herself down in flour, and she then decided to walk out of the store. And so, you know, in that type of situation as a police officer, and, you know, you're. I'm always down four or five calls.
[00:48:28] Speaker D: Right.
[00:48:28] Speaker A: Always down calls. It's like, how much time and effort do I have at this moment? Is this person presenting a danger to themselves or others? Well, she's obviously not in her clear mental state.
Right. And I was CIT certified, so I should know all the things. I have a. I'm. At this time, I was a QMHP because of my work in the military. So I'm a qualified mental health professional. So I have some years into a little bit of understanding here. I was a therapeutic foster parent, went through some amazing training, and I thought to myself, I had to let this lady walk away.
I'm down four calls. I have a domestic across town.
[00:49:08] Speaker G: That's a really good point. If I can kind of. Yeah, please jump in. Cause eventually, even if somebody's detained, and under Oregon law, if we move toward a court proceeding and file a civil. I mean, if we move toward civil, commit what's called civil commitment, a person can be sentenced up to six years in a state hospital against their will. But no matter what. What the level is, eventually they're gonna be back on their own. Yeah, eventually it's gonna be voluntary.
[00:49:34] Speaker A: So always the plan.
[00:49:36] Speaker G: Yeah, eventually they're gonna be taking care of themselves again. So eventually you're gonna be right back to kind of square one. So we don't want to force people to do things.
[00:49:44] Speaker A: Yeah, you can't.
[00:49:45] Speaker G: We want to encourage them and build that relationship, help change their lives and give them goals and etc, etcetera.
[00:49:50] Speaker D: And.
[00:49:50] Speaker G: And starting with the foundation.
[00:49:51] Speaker D: Wow.
[00:49:52] Speaker A: So kind of bringing that into the ride along today. You know, you joined us on our first call, and the call was. Shanti. Shanti. Actually, we contacted her yesterday. We took out a. Our writer yesterday was a gentleman named Mac McKnight. Great guy. He runs a training academy here in the area. He's former Green Beret, special forces. He's former law enforcement, and he's an attorney.
[00:50:20] Speaker G: Sounds like a tough act for me to follow, right?
[00:50:22] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:50:22] Speaker A: Pretty, pretty squared away guy. And we had, we had a con just walking down the street, mere contact. We just. She happened to hanging out on a street corner, and we said, hey, how are you doing? You needed some water.
[00:50:34] Speaker D: You need drink?
[00:50:35] Speaker A: Yeah, sure.
[00:50:35] Speaker D: That'd be great.
[00:50:36] Speaker A: And she goes, who are y'all? We said, oh, we know echelon. We're loving one another. Oh, I know who y'all are, don't y'all? Getting people into shelters. And we're like, that's exactly what we do. So unfortunately, it was late in the day, and we told her, we'll be able to help you the next day, today. And you joined us, and so you kind of saw us and everyone. I'm sure everyone's going to be able to see the videos as well. You saw how we were interacting with her.
To give an update. You know, since we've been in the studio, we were able to get Shanti over into a. A residential program, so a sheltering program where she has her own room, so she's not in a common area.
This was important because she was a victim of sexual abuse on the street. And it happens to be less than five minutes from, five minute drive from where her children live. It's in a suburb area. So we took her out of that subculture that brings her back into drug use in downtown Portland. Got her like 30 minutes outside of Portland. Really nice facility. And we were also able to get her some clothing, and we bought her a cell phone.
[00:51:40] Speaker D: Right.
[00:51:40] Speaker A: So that way she is. She's able to contact her family and stay, keep open those. Those channels of communication.
[00:51:47] Speaker D: Right.
[00:51:47] Speaker A: So based on your understanding of what you do, and I'm looking at you because I consider you the professional here. How did that go? And if we were law enforcement, what would that have looked like?
[00:52:00] Speaker D: If we.
[00:52:00] Speaker A: If that call would have been in Hood river, what would that have looked like?
[00:52:04] Speaker G: That's a really good, good question. I think I would kind of take a step back a little bit and see the. And look at it in terms of a little bit of a bigger picture and think about the perspective from passerbys, from community members. What do they see when we're out there? They're seeing, I'm guessing they're seeing this is a single event, there's a crisis going on. This is happening right now, and they don't see that this maybe is the 15th contact developing the. So people can kind of get that wrong and not really understand what they're seeing is not necessarily the reality of the situation.
[00:52:37] Speaker A: They don't understand that we're friends with this lady, that we know her and her story and.
[00:52:41] Speaker G: Correct.
[00:52:41] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:52:41] Speaker A: There's a level of rapport.
[00:52:43] Speaker G: And if, you know, in an unfortunate circumstance, if things get sideways and there has to be some kind of level of force or persuasion or whatnot, and you have community members are passing by, seeing that they're going to misinterpret, like.
[00:52:55] Speaker A: You might, this happens a lot.
[00:52:56] Speaker G: You might have been working with her first, you know, every day for three months, tried everything. And it's, you know, you're concerned enough about her welfare, her safety, where you're going to have to push a little bit and get her into services.
[00:53:09] Speaker D: You.
[00:53:10] Speaker A: Know, at least push her to the point of agency where she makes a decision.
[00:53:14] Speaker G: Exactly.
[00:53:15] Speaker A: If she chooses to stay on the street, I respect it.
[00:53:17] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:53:18] Speaker A: But all I want, I want them to know they had the choice.
[00:53:23] Speaker D: Right.
[00:53:23] Speaker G: Absolutely. So that, and that's funny because in that kind of continuum of persuasion or force, we always try to start in the softest on the lower level. So I have kind of canned phrases that I've found that work well, and I'll say something like, so, hey, Alex, I'm really concerned about you. I'm always going to do what I think is best for you, and what I think is best for you is for you to allow me to transport you to the emergency room. But you're an adult. You get to make the decision, and that's where we kind of start there.
[00:53:55] Speaker A: I love that you show care, concern, rapport agency and, yeah, give the, give the response.
[00:53:59] Speaker G: Ultimately, again, eventually the person's going to be back responsible for them. We're taking care of them and we're kind of, you know, helping them get established services and we're doing everything we can. But eventually they're going to be running the show again.
[00:54:12] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:54:12] Speaker G: So we want to encourage that, hey, it's ultimately your responsibility. It's your responsibility here to help you. But ultimately, I'm trying to pass them all back, if that makes sense.
[00:54:20] Speaker A: I love that. So, you know, what we do is very similar on a daily basis.
[00:54:26] Speaker D: Right?
[00:54:27] Speaker A: I mean, I'm here running companies. I got a tech company, I got a security company. All these things I'm doing. But, like, the type of work we're doing institutionally is very similar. I would say it's different in one regard. I mean, there's other approaches and these, these things, but the significant difference is what you're doing is kind of that law enforcement model where you're constantly reacting to a crisis.
[00:54:51] Speaker D: Right.
[00:54:52] Speaker A: What I'm doing is I have a team of 80 to 90 people that are constantly going out in the same neighborhoods every day, 24 hours a day, at night and the daytime in neighborhoods. So security patrols, and we're contacting the same people every day. The same people every day. And so work. Like, when we. When we came across Shanti, she actually wasn't in crisis.
She wasn't in crisis, which at that point, allowed that regulate regulated behavior.
It actually added to the agency. So what I've noticed is sometimes crisis at creates agency because they're just sick and tired.
[00:55:36] Speaker D: I'm done.
[00:55:36] Speaker A: I went out of here. But sometimes regulated behavior, not being high.
[00:55:41] Speaker D: Right.
[00:55:42] Speaker A: Being connected to reality, being grounded, can lead to agency and good choices. And so, in that regard, we really aren't responding to crisis. I mean, you could. One could argue everything in downtown Portland is a crisis right now, but really, we're just kind of contacting everybody every day. And that neighborly, friendly manner, handing out water and cigarettes and having conversations with folks, and they just casually come up to us like Shanti did, and said, hey, I heard about y'all, and you know what? I'm ready. I actually would like to get into a shelter.
And so for us, I think it's a little bit easier, because there wasn't a lot of de escalation that needed to occur.
She already knew who we were. So even though we didn't have that direct rapport, we had the. We had that street cred on our favor.
[00:56:28] Speaker D: Right.
[00:56:29] Speaker A: And she knew that she could trust us because we've transitioned probably over a thousand people now.
And so is there a point at which law enforcement can engage law enforcement? Emergency services as a whole, can take a multidisciplinary approach where they're out patrolling and engaging people like we are, rather than always responding in that reactive manner.
[00:56:53] Speaker B: Is that.
[00:56:54] Speaker A: Is that a possibility for emergency services in the future?
[00:56:58] Speaker G: It is, in my experience. And perspective, is definitely moving that direction, for sure.
[00:57:02] Speaker A: Well, that's really hopeful.
[00:57:03] Speaker G: Absolutely. And, you know, it's funny, because I used to teach parent skills training for a long time, and I would sit down with the family, sit down, parents, and say, there's two major roles of being a good parent. Be in the authority and be in the supportive, loving person.
[00:57:18] Speaker A: So hard to manage.
[00:57:19] Speaker G: So, like. So you want to be the authority of rules, structures, expectations, consequences, and you want to be the loving parent where you spend time, give them love, affection, et cetera, et cetera.
And the question becomes which role do you play and when? So it.
[00:57:33] Speaker B: And can both parents be on the same page at the same time?
[00:57:35] Speaker G: Well, that's a whole different conversation.
[00:57:37] Speaker A: Yeah, but it's hard enough with a, with a dog.
[00:57:40] Speaker G: But in terms of, you know, if you're, if we're responding to a crisis, it's too late. It is, because I'm gonna play the wrong role. If someone's in crisis, they don't need to hear that I'm an authority and.
[00:57:51] Speaker D: Da da da da da da.
[00:57:52] Speaker A: I'm gonna tell you what to do and you're gonna do it.
[00:57:55] Speaker G: So. So for instance, you know, when I'm not getting calls at work, maybe I'll drive to Safeway parking lot in Hood river and just park in the middle. Have my lunch at 1111 at night, twelve at night. And people come up and start talking. And know a lot of those people, the street. Street folks.
[00:58:11] Speaker A: Cuz you've been there.
[00:58:12] Speaker G: Yeah, yeah. Go make contact. You know, if I'm not getting and do that proactive stuff, that's amazing. So we build a relationship because how you can build a relationship when you're in crisis, it's not a good time.
[00:58:22] Speaker A: The worst time, it's a good time.
[00:58:24] Speaker G: When you're not in crisis.
[00:58:25] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:58:25] Speaker A: You don't trust anyone. Everything's messed up.
[00:58:27] Speaker G: So. So basically I use that told parents, you know, think of do the opposite of what you feel like you should do. I want to come, I want to be the authority figure because my kids acting out, that's the wrong time to do that. So they need the love and the support. So I would always like catch my kids when they're behaving, doing well. That's not like, okay, we need to have family meeting, sit down, lay down the rules.
[00:58:46] Speaker B: Lay down the rules.
[00:58:48] Speaker G: They're agreeable.
[00:58:49] Speaker A: Like, you know what, that sounds very reasonable.
[00:58:51] Speaker G: But if they're already acting out and I'm catching them, it's, we're going to get a power struggle. It's going to crash and burn pretty quick.
[00:58:56] Speaker A: So I mean, this just speaks to your level of mastery of social dynamics, right? I mean, that simple, the simple understanding of knowing when to be the person of authority versus the person that's supporting and being able to read the behaviors and not only of the individual, but the social dynamic behaviors of the room dynamic, and knowing when to push and pull, knowing when to play that role in that life, that authority or supportive role. And so that's what you're doing on the street every day. Is there a place where law enforcement.
Where we can get law enforcement not to stop. We still need law enforcement to arrest people.
[00:59:41] Speaker D: Right.
[00:59:42] Speaker A: There's always going to be individuals who are going to violate rules and laws, and those people need to be separated from those of us who want to follow the rules because we want to be safe. We want our family members to be safe and our neighbors, our friends. So we need that role of law enforcement.
But is there ever a place where we can get the staffing and the training at a level where law enforcement can go out and just engage in this activity?
[01:00:10] Speaker G: You know, I think we're quite a ways off from that.
[01:00:17] Speaker A: Do you think people do? You know, and I hate to put you on the spot, but do you believe that there are people that are high up in leadership in law enforcement agencies that are thinking these things and having these conversations?
[01:00:29] Speaker G: I would if we could take a step back. I think it's simpler than that. I think we need, as human beings, we need motivation to get up in the morning, and we need gratification, and we need to be able to check the win box.
[01:00:41] Speaker D: We do.
[01:00:41] Speaker G: How was I successful today? And unfortunately, I think, you know, typically, historically, in law enforcement, success equals arrest. Lodging someone in detention.
[01:00:49] Speaker D: Correct.
[01:00:49] Speaker G: Or jail.
[01:00:50] Speaker D: Yeah.
[01:00:50] Speaker G: And, like, that was a win. Now it's a different mindset for me. Like, I go. I go out with the goal of I want to develop a relationship with whoever, and I'm gonna give it my best shot, and that person might scream and yell and jump up and down. That's fine.
[01:01:05] Speaker D: I.
[01:01:05] Speaker G: Cause I tried my best, and that's a win. So I walk away with every situation win.
I don't. So. So I think that's gonna be a hard mindset shift.
[01:01:16] Speaker A: It's a hard paradigm shift.
[01:01:17] Speaker G: It really is.
[01:01:18] Speaker A: And I.
[01:01:19] Speaker G: Once you do that, and I did that, you know, I had that internal shift. At some point, it's way more. Life is way more rewarding.
[01:01:29] Speaker A: 100%.
[01:01:31] Speaker D: Yeah.
[01:01:32] Speaker G: You know, that's what it's about. It's about internal wins and the connection with relationships. It's not about, you know, how many arrests or. It's not. It has nothing to do with statistics. You know, this month, I arrested eight people.
I wrote, you know, X Men citations or whatever. That's not what it's about. It's like, could I connect? Did I connect somebody where they actually shared something with me? Maybe they've never shared before? That's powerful.
[01:01:59] Speaker D: Yeah.
[01:02:00] Speaker A: And, you know, you always get the approval of authority figures in law enforcement when you have the most tickets, the most arrests, they. They like that. And so it's. It just reinforces that behavior, and that's not bad. Again, there are people out there who need tickets. There are people out there who drive intoxicated, and we need to keep the public safe, so we need these. These rules exist for reasons.
[01:02:23] Speaker D: Right.
[01:02:24] Speaker A: My. I guess my next question as a follow up is, should. Is law enforcement. I mean, going back to that 1972 decision, right. That civil rights decision, law enforcement de facto became the individuals who had to deal with this, I think, of the Parkland shooter, right. Had multiple. Multiple contacts with law enforcement, but never got a mental health referral, even though he was displaying mental health issues, because law enforcement aren't really trained to do that. And again, the call volume problem, it's always the problem with the call volume.
You could have another call in line where someone's literally being killed. You kept a domestic, and someone could die if you don't show up and you have to take that call.
My question is, is law enforcement the agency that should be doing this, or should a third or fourth type of agency? So not. Not fire and rescue, not emts, not medics, not law enforcement, but is there a. Is there a new department of emergency services that needs to be created that is focused primarily on mental health, that has some quasi police powers, some quasi medical training, mental health training, EMT training? I mean, is that where we need to go? Does this need to go into the firehouse? Into the firehouse?
[01:03:47] Speaker G: I mean, it sure feels like that's the direction we're moving in, certainly in the state of Oregon.
[01:03:51] Speaker D: Me, too.
[01:03:51] Speaker B: That's what I think.
[01:03:52] Speaker G: And absolutely, I agree with what you just said. And I think so. I think, you know, I've always been. Alex, I've always been 100% supportive of law enforcement, being an explorer for five years, and I kind of have a good feel for how challenging that job is.
[01:04:06] Speaker A: Very challenging.
[01:04:07] Speaker G: And unfortunately, at least from my perspective, law enforcement is tasked with picking up the pieces. It's an impossibility of, you know, society's policies, and, you know, they pick up, they're tasked with fixing problems that they're not equipped to fix.
[01:04:25] Speaker D: Yeah.
[01:04:25] Speaker A: Constantly.
[01:04:26] Speaker G: And so they're put into a lose lose situation.
[01:04:28] Speaker A: From my perspective, almost every call is.
[01:04:30] Speaker G: Yeah, yeah. So it's really a lose lose paradigm, a lose lose dynamic, not from the fault of law enforcement.
[01:04:35] Speaker A: And this why this is why the default is. It was a successful shift. If I go home alive today, because they know, they. You begin to feel like the only win you can have is going home alive because your calls. There are no wins. Do you really want to arrest that 21 year old and charge them with a felony because they caused an injury to someone's face and it was the first fight they were ever in, and now this person's going to be a felon for the rest of her life.
But you know that this person's probably a really good person. 30 years ago, they probably would have just been like Andy Griffith, taken to the jail. Mom and dad would have talked to each other, brought the local religious leader in. They would have had a thing, a town meeting, and figured out, no, we're going to forgive them, and maybe they'll come paint the house. Community justice.
[01:05:20] Speaker D: Right.
[01:05:20] Speaker A: And so everything's becoming very, very codified.
[01:05:24] Speaker G: It's a codified justice, and it's a process of consequences. I think we both know that once someone gets in the criminal justice system, as a criminal, so to speak, it's nearly impossible to get out.
You got that master stigma, that status. I mean, it's virtually impossible to crawl your way out of that, even with the best intentions and motivations. You have that label, that stigma.
Anytime you get stopped, they're gonna run your. Run your license and see all your offenses, and it's just gonna reinforce that perspective.
[01:05:57] Speaker D: Yeah.
[01:05:58] Speaker G: Of one situation, you know, of a behavior that maybe happened ten years ago, there was a poor decision. I mean, I make. I make poor decisions every day.
[01:06:04] Speaker D: Yeah.
[01:06:05] Speaker G: Luckily not, you know, super, you know, super bad decisions that cause consequences.
[01:06:11] Speaker A: Texting on your phone.
[01:06:12] Speaker D: Yeah.
[01:06:12] Speaker A: You caused a death, a vehicular death. I've seen it. I've been there. Been on those calls, handled those calls.
[01:06:17] Speaker G: That one moment is gonna ruin that person's life.
[01:06:19] Speaker D: Yeah.
[01:06:20] Speaker G: Just from nothing other than the social stigma.
[01:06:22] Speaker D: Yep.
[01:06:22] Speaker A: And when you're a cop in a small town and you know the people you're arresting and you know, this isn't gonna help them.
[01:06:30] Speaker D: It's. It's. It is.
[01:06:31] Speaker A: It's a very tough profession. So maybe. Maybe as a community, we need to rethink how we're engaging mental health. You know, maybe law enforcement never was that tool.
[01:06:44] Speaker G: Well, I think it goes back to exactly what you're doing, thinking in terms of community.
[01:06:49] Speaker D: Yeah.
[01:06:49] Speaker G: And, you know, there's these sayings that sound silly, but, you know, takes a village one step at a time. There's a lot of truth to that. You know, it can't just be law enforcement or it can't just be secure, whatever. It can't just be one agency to handle and help and change. So these are complex social issues and social problems. And one agency is not going to be able to do that. It really takes the community.
And so I think, you know, what you guys are doing and being proactive and getting out there, being seen, getting everyone's attention, we're all working together. That's what, that's this, that's the spirit of, that's what's going to change things over time. Absolutely.
[01:07:30] Speaker A: Well, I love it, and I appreciate that compliment. You know, we started our programs with the intent that, you know, nothing was getting done, at least not to the level that could affect real change. And we thought, well, I mean, why not try?
That was really the other owner and I, we were like, why not try? Why not? Like, we, we had to ask ourselves, can we really get security guards that are on duty to do outrage to the houseless?
I mean, can you really ask a security guard to do that?
And we were like, yeah, let's do it. And we found out our security guards were like, we love this. You know, we, we feel enriched by our profession and by our job. We feel more pride in our job now because we're no longer looked at as wannabe cops, because we're no longer trying to pretend to be law enforcement. We're doing humanitarian aid work in an urban refugee crisis, and we're not doing it in a reactive way. We're doing it proactively by building substantive relationships every day. That bridge to sheltering and resources and, you know, it's enriched me as an owner. I feel. I feel honored to be, be doing this. And I just hope that through this podcast, through having people in, you know, like yourself, professionals in the field, that people will see this model and think we can replicate this model.
[01:09:06] Speaker G: Well, people obviously want instant gratification. We want to fix the problem, but that's not realistic. But, you know, coming up on 30 years of being a counselor, therapist, I really fundamentally believe that it's the little things that matter. So think about what's occurred so far today, the contacts we've made and the several people we talked to, they're going to remember that.
[01:09:28] Speaker A: Oh, oh, yeah.
[01:09:29] Speaker G: They're going to remember that interaction for a couple minutes.
[01:09:31] Speaker A: Nate, on the corner, someone acknowledged me.
[01:09:34] Speaker G: You know, I recently read an article that was suggesting someone with a serious persistent mental illness. They're invisible.
[01:09:41] Speaker D: Yeah, that's right.
[01:09:42] Speaker G: And I try to envision myself in that perspective. Like, if I'm walking down the street and everybody a block or so away sees me across the street. Cause they don't. I mean, that's horrible. Horrible.
[01:09:52] Speaker D: Not.
[01:09:53] Speaker G: Not be recognized. So it's that little bit of contact. Hey, how's it going? That two minute chat, it makes a huge difference. It really, really does. There's no doubt in my mind they're gonna remember that next time you have contact. They remember, hey, this guy checked it. He cares.
[01:10:06] Speaker D: Yeah.
[01:10:07] Speaker G: And they're gonna get that message. Your heart's in the right place. You care about them as human beings, and we do. And over time, things are gonna work out. Absolutely.
[01:10:18] Speaker D: That's awesome.
[01:10:18] Speaker A: I love your positivity. That's great. So, again, you know, we've been in the studio for a while. I want people to know who you are. I know you're kind of working for the public right now, so they can't, like, look at your website or is there any training that you're providing? Is there anything that if someone's interested in getting involved in this, can they find you in any way? Are you on LinkedIn?
[01:10:38] Speaker G: I am not. I'm just. Just working at outpatient clinic out in Hood river.
So I get enough of my plates.
[01:10:47] Speaker D: Yeah.
[01:10:48] Speaker A: You are in the middle of writing a book. That book will hopefully be. Yes, it will be out in 2024.
[01:10:54] Speaker G: Hopefully.
[01:10:54] Speaker D: Hopefully. Okay.
[01:10:56] Speaker A: And that's not to say that you're gonna be branching out and starting your own thing. I don't want people back at your. In the other side of the mountain. Right. To be worried about that. But I think that you are a great resource. I think that. I know you are, because if. If people in law enforcement are calling you in the middle of a crisis that could lead to death, and they think the one person I need to call is Jim good. I mean, and you have dozens of law enforcement agents doing that every night. I mean, you're more of a resource than I ever had. I would have been calling you every. Every day, for sure. And so I want to thank you for coming in. Jim good. He's professional. He's on the street. He's coming in. I'm hoping that you're going to be a regular on the show. I'd like to bring you in and maybe even do some training and stuff with the folks. Thanks for watching the ride along today. If you want to know more about us, check us out on YouTube. Check us out on all of our social media. We love to have you. If you are a writer, if you're in law enforcement, if you're in a program, you're interested in being a writer on the ride along, contact us. We'd love to have you on.
